[pbflash]

So if the Champion REC10 burned too hot, then the Rec16 coppers are probably way too hot correct? I guess I'll be changing my plugs again this weekend.

 

[youngsmith53]

So if the Champion REC10 burned too hot, then the Rec16 coppers are probably way too hot correct? I guess I'll be changing my plugs again this weekend.

Not necessarily... because the REC10WMPB's are iridium and not copper, two completely ways of how the metals handle the heat. As you could see with the copper Autolites which are a step hotter than the iridium OEM's, are NOT burning too hot (BUT are a step hotter). No need to swap out anything quite yet.

 

[pbflash]

Not necessarily... because the REC10WMPB's are iridium and not copper, two completely ways of how the metals handle the heat. As you could see with the copper Autolites which are a step hotter than the iridium OEM's, are NOT burning too hot (BUT are a step hotter). No need to swap out anything quite yet.

OK. I'll pull them and see how they look.

 

[KrS]

One thing is a member states the ngk's need the Z due to the electronic, I seriously doubt that is gonna cause issues as the coppers are not going to be Z rated

That was my mistake, I thought the Z was suppressor plugs, not the extra projection. Ignore that post I deleted

I'm really surprised by the pics @youngsmith53 posted of his stock plugs. They look a hell of a lot more normal than mine did coming out. Did you drop #1? strap looks closed to the electrode?

 

[youngsmith53]

I'm really surprised by the pics @youngsmith53 posted of his stock plugs. They look a hell of a lot more normal than mine did coming out. Did you drop #1? strap looks closed to the electrode?

Yes, I did drop #1, it was not like that when installed (LOL)... and yes, it is odd how my OEM's wore compared to yours. But it is good to have comparisons like this so we can all learn and do group research...

 

[KrS]

I agree it's good to have multiple sources of comparison, it just made me wonder, what the @#% is going on with my computer running so rich!!

 

[youngsmith53]

Working on 2nd shift is (hopefully) helping the community reap some benefits, here is some more information/knowledge I was able to compile on spark plugs (heat ranges) that are available to be tested on the 2.0/2.4 NA platform.

Stock OEM:
REC10WMPB = Denso IKH20 / 5344

Autolite:
XP5325 = Denso IKH20 / 5344

Champion:
RE16MC (Copper) = Denso ITL16 / 5349 (Per Denso Heat Range, Step colder (than copper) but Iridium)

Denso OEM(OE) recommendation = IKH16 / 5343 (Per Denso Heat Range, Step colder (than stock OEM))

With the Denso information obtained, I was able to cross-reference with Bosch:
Denso 5349 = Bosch 9654 (Bosch Heat Range 9 = Champion Heat Range 16)
Denso 5343 = Bosch 9609 (Heat Range 8)

With that being said they do have the Bosch 9609's in stock (and on sale to boot ) at my local Advance Auto and I have placed a pick up order for them later in the day (after my nap).

Addendum: It should be noted that the Denso 5343's & Bosch 9609's on paper look to be a good alternative for testing due to them both being a "colder" plug when compared the Stock OEM Iridium's. This is all being based off of the pictures showing the Stock OEM's (REC10WMPB) are "too hot" we have been seeing across the board.

 

[scottyp9]

Wow thats a lot of information right there. Thanks for all the research. Can somebody sum up for me which spark plug I should be getting, and what to gap it to? Im the type that would change them more often for the best results. I drive my dart for a living so itll be worth it. I live in Wisconsin where temps vary from like -20F to 95F. I also run 92 octane (non-ethanol if I can find it) The engine has about 4k miles on it. Would the RRM spectrum tuner benefit from an entirely different set of plugs?

 

[youngsmith53]

@SolNine I'm happy you brought up this topic again, as I dug a lot more deeper into this. Hopefully this will help provide more understanding of the different types of spark plugs metals.

By definition the conductivity of a metal is a material's ability to conduct an electric current.
As far as conductivity here is what you are looking for (thermal conductivity of some commonly used metals (Watts / centimeter*Kelvin)):

Zinc = 1.16
Aluminum = 2.37
Copper = 4.01
Steel = 0.70 - 0.82
Platinum = 0.716
Iridium = 1.47

By definition the Restiveness of a metal is an intrinsic property that quantifies how strongly a given material opposes the flow of electric current.
In regards to restiveness of metals (Resistivity at 20 °C (Ω.m)):

Zinc = 5.92 x 10-8
Aluminum = 2.82 x 10-8
Copper = 1.7 x 10-8
Steel = ??? (reason being there are many variations of steel out there)
Platinum = 1.1 x 10-7
Iridium = 5.3 x 10-8

Now that we have the Electrical resistivity and conductivity of the above metals, lets put those two together...

Conductivity Of Metals Sorted By Resistivity​

credit: Conductivity Of Metals Sorted By Resistivity | Eddy Current Technology​

We measure the Conductivity of Metals by Resistivity, we use the IACS resistivity percentage standard. IACS is an acronym for International Annealed Copper Standard, which was established by the 1913 International Electrochemical Commission. The conductivity of the annealed copper (5.8001 x 107S/m) is defined to be 100% IACS at 20°C . All other conductivity values are related back to this conductivity of annealed copper. (An interesting side note is that commercially pure copper products now often have IACS conductivity values greater than 100% IACS because processing techniques have improved since the adoption of the standard in 1913 and more impurities can now be removed from the metal.) (credit: https://www.nde-ed.org/EducationRes.../EducationResources/CommunityCollege/Materials/Physical_Chemical/Electrical.htm)

Conductivity Of Metals Sorted By Resistivity (sorted by IACS % where higher percentage equals higher Conductivity & Resistivity = better spark for plugs)
Zinc = 29.00%
Aluminum = 64.94% to 24.00% (all depends on the quality/composite)
Copper = 103.60% to 85% (all depends on the quality/composite)
Steel = 2.90% to 2.30% (all depends on the quality/composite (10.70% is "cast steel" which we would not use))
Platinum = 16.28% (9.10% Platinum & Iridium Alloys)
Iridium = 32.60% (9.10% Iridium & Platinum Alloys)

With the new information I was able to find, I still believe that the Copper core plugs are best for the 2.0/2.4 engine thus producing a higher and more efficient spark and this has been backed by science. Even on the low end of the scale of copper it is still 52.40 percentage points ahead of Iridium and 68.62 percentage points ahead of Platinum. Granted there is the pay off of having to swap them out sooner rather than later with the platinum/iridium plugs. No, Coppers won't unleash gobs of HP and it might not show up on a Dyno, but the difference is there and backed by science. BUT, the spark you are getting from the copper is both more conductive and resistive thus giving a more powerful spark equaling a better response from the engine, which again is backed by science...

So I have been known to be wrong from time to time (just ask my wife, lol)... but as you can see in this post, I had a bit of an epiphany this morning. As you all know, I love my copper plugs, I think they offer a great trade off with what they offer and how they interact with our NA engines (especially 2.0's)... but this morning upon researching this topic, I found that there is a better option out there backed by science:

Conductivity Of Metals Sorted By Resistivity (sorted by IACS % where higher percentage equals higher Conductivity & Resistivity = better spark for plugs)
Zinc = 29.00%
Aluminum = 64.94% to 24.00% (all depends on the quality/composite)
Copper = 103.60% to 85% (all depends on the quality/composite)
Steel = 2.90% to 2.30% (all depends on the quality/composite (10.70% is "cast steel" which we would not use))
Platinum = 16.28% (9.10% Platinum & Iridium Alloys)
Iridium = 32.60% (9.10% Iridium & Platinum Alloys)
Silver = 108.40% to 105% (all depends on the quality/composite)

By definition the Restiveness of a metal is an intrinsic property that quantifies how strongly a given material opposes the flow of electric current.
In regards to restiveness of metals (Resistivity at 20 °C (Ω.m)):
Zinc = 5.92 x 10-8
Aluminum = 2.82 x 10-8
Copper = 1.7 x 10-8
Steel = ??? (reason being there are many variations of steel out there)
Platinum = 1.1 x 10-7
Iridium = 5.3 x 10-8
Silver = 1.59 x 10-8

By definition the conductivity of a metal is a material's ability to conduct an electric current.
As far as conductivity here is what you are looking for (thermal conductivity of some commonly used metals (Watts / centimeter*Kelvin)):
Zinc = 1.16
Aluminum = 2.37
Copper = 4.01
Steel = 0.70 - 0.82
Platinum = 0.716
Iridium = 1.47
Silver = 4.29

If you did not check the link I supplied above, there is another brand of plugs (Brisk) out there that use Silver as their primary racing spark plug.

Spark Plug Materials
• Silver is the best thermal (heat) conductor of all metals
• Allows for a wide spark plug heat range
• Excellent heat dissipation under max. power
• Excellent resistance to fouling under light load operation
• Silver is the best electrical conductor of all metals
• Most free electrons
• Best power delivery
• Most powerfull spark

This is more food for thought than anything as Silver is indeed 2 out of 3 times better than Copper... (and NO this isn't a market ploy either, it's backed by SCIENCE), but I wanted to supply you all with as much information as possible in regards to this subject. I had asked all other vendor specific questions in the link I supplied above, so EuroCompulsion can answer those in their forum and we can keep this as a knowledge thread. Hope this helps and isn't "clear as mud"... as always if you do have any other questions, please feel free to PM me and I will try and assist as much as possible.

EDIT: As far as longevity of silver, they will last up to three times as long as conventional spark plugs. Silver is a precious metal and therefore extremely resistant to erosion, guaranteeing a virtually unchanged electrode gap for the life of the spark plug.

 

[rjsiecinski]

So I have been known to be wrong from time to time (just ask my wife, lol)... but as you can see in this post, I had a bit of an epiphany this morning. As you all know, I love my copper plugs, I think they offer a great trade off with what they offer and how they interact with our NA engines (especially 2.0's)... but this morning upon researching this topic, I found that there is a better option out there backed by science:

This is more food for thought than anything as Silver is indeed 2 out of 3 times better than Copper... (and NO this isn't a market ploy either, it's backed by SCIENCE), but I wanted to supply you all with as much information as possible in regards to this subject. I had asked all other vendor specific questions in the link I supplied above, so EuroCompulsion can answer those in their forum and we can keep this as a knowledge thread. Hope this helps and isn't "clear as mud"... as always if you do have any other questions, please feel free to PM me and I will try and assist as much as possible.

EDIT: As far as longevity of silver, they will last up to three times as long as conventional spark plugs. Silver is a precious metal and therefore extremely resistant to erosion, guaranteeing a virtually unchanged electrode gap for the life of the spark plug.

You are the MAN!!!!

 

[youngsmith53]

Copy'd from my build thread to spread the knowledge of spark plugs to the rest of the community

After much reading/research about the new Bosch 9606's, I decided NOT to change the gap of the plug. Per the Bosch specifications, the gap is to stay at .044". Here is a comparison of the Champion RE16MC's vs Bosch 9609's:

​

Here is what the Champion RE16MC's looked once I pulled them out:
[table="width: 1500, align: center"]
[tr]
[td]

[/td]
[td]

[/td]
[td]

[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Champion RE16MC's ran for 821 miles gapped @ 0.049" w/ 2.0 Injen CAI, RRM Pulley & Custom Exhaust installed. Running 93 octane.​

From the looks of the plugs and comparing them to the Autolites 5325's that I took out they wore very similar if not better than the Autolites. From looking at some comparisons across the internet it looks like they are running fine with little to no ill-effect on the engine. The wear could be brought up a few threads, but this plug is from the looks of it very good plug for the 2.0 NA engines. I will be excited to see how these Bosch's play out through the course of the months since they are a step colder than the STOCK OEM REC10WMPB's and pretty much 2 steps colder than what I was running with the Champions RE16MC's.

This morning I had no issues with start-up and no weird throttle blips or idling that I would have had a cause for alarm. I will be keeping an eye out on the EuroCompulsion threads like this one http://www.dodge-dart.org/forum/eur...um/eurocompulsion/28114-brisk-performance-racing-silver-plugs-ec-1-4t-2-4l.html to see how those Sliver plugs are working out. If anything I will try and be the guinea pig for us 2.0 owners with those plugs. The Bosch's are going to take some time to get a good feel or grasp on the longetivity, performance and wear of them. I haven't got WOT on the new Bosch's, but I'll hopefully be able to check that out after work as well. Picture dump of the new Bosch 9609's can be found here.

 

[Killraven]

@youngsmith53 , I have about 2k miles on my Champion coppers and I still have slight idle surge. About every 20 seconds the idle will blip down ever so slightly(Maybe 100rpms). I'm not too concerned with it though. What are your thoughts?

 

[youngsmith53]

@youngsmith53 , I have about 2k miles on my Champion coppers and I still have slight idle surge. About every 20 seconds the idle will blip down ever so slightly(Maybe 100rpms). I'm not too concerned with it though. What are your thoughts?

I personally never experienced that with the copper Champions, but I have heard of the surging caused by plugs. I (me personally) wouldn't be too worried about that unless it's still noticeable enough to make you wonder about it. I only have 3.1 miles on the new Bosch's so I can't really compare on how they are right now versus the Champion's coppers. Let me know if the surge does get higher (RPM wise) or worse and maybe swap out from them back to the Autolites, or some other plugs that are out there that is deemed better.

Thanks for letting us know and the update on the Champ Coppers.

 

[Killraven]

I personally never experienced that with the copper Champions, but I have heard of the surging caused by plugs. I (me personally) wouldn't be too worried about that unless it's still noticeable enough to make you wonder about it. I only have 3.1 miles on the new Bosch's so I can't really compare on how they are right now versus the Champion's coppers. Let me know if the surge does get higher (RPM wise) or worse and maybe swap out from them back to the Autolites, or some other plugs that are out there that is deemed better.

Thanks for letting us know and the update on the Champ Coppers.

I take it back, the surge is not every 20 seconds, but more random over the entire 2k miles I have had them. Sometimes it does it, most of the time I don't notice it. It's only a 100rpm drop during idle, even turning on my A/C will dip more rpms than these plugs are currently. It just seems that when it does do the idle surge, it will do it in 20 second intervals.

While driving, the plugs perform great. To me it feels like more "power" throughout the rpm band, almost feels like more torque. My Powertech doesn't downshift to 5th while on the highway as much as it did before. 3rd gear is a lot more responsive at low rpms when lugging the motor. It's very smooth throughout the entire rpm band and sounds great in the upper rpms!

 

[youngsmith53]

I take it back, the surge is not every 20 seconds, but more random over the entire 2k miles I have had them. Sometimes it does it, most of the time I don't notice it. It's only a 100rpm drop during idle, even turning on my A/C will dip more rpms than these plugs are currently. It just seems that when it does do the idle surge, it will do it in 20 second intervals.

While driving, the plugs perform great. To me it feels like more "power" throughout the rpm band, almost feels like more torque. My Powertech doesn't downshift to 5th while on the highway as much as it did before. 3rd gear is a lot more responsive at low rpms when lugging the motor. It's very smooth throughout the entire rpm band and sounds great in the upper rpms!

Yeah, I love those Champion coppers plugs. They wore nice from what I was researching the wear on them. I'll throw up some comparisons when its not so crazy at work (like today). I'll more than likely throw them back into Aya after I test out these Bosch's for the community. I really want to try the Brisk plugs, but since I just installed the Bosch's I'll give it a few months to put some miles on these before I go further into the realms of spark plug's... lol

 

[youngsmith53]

MSD 3730's

It's been a while since spark plugs became a trending topic, but I figured I would bump it up today (yes, I actually have time (lol)). I did some research over the holiday break (shocking I know), but between the research and the sales, I bought myself some new spark plugs to test out... I ended up following @SolNine's lead from the 7th page here and going with MSD 37304 (3730 if you are buying 1 spark plug *or* 9IR5Y is the other manufacturing part number they go by). Official specs of the MSD 3730 plugs are the following:

[table="width: 500, align: center"]
[tr]
[td]Resistor:[/td]
[td]YES[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Manufacturer Heat Range:[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Electrode Core Material:[/td]
[td]Copper[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Electrode Tip Material:[/td]
[td]Iridium[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Gap:[/td]
[td].040"[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spark Plug Thread Size:[/td]
[td]14mm[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spark Plug Reach:[/td]
[td]1.040 in.[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Spark Plug Seat Style:[/td]
[td]Gasket[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Wrench Diameter:[/td]
[td]5/8[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

one of the main things that brought me to MSD's was watching the youtube video (can be seen in this post here or on youtube here) as well as this picture:

​

As you can see and what SolNine was referencing in his posts was the "side gapping" of the plugs themselves. Per MSD, "Small surfaces of the electrodes in the flame core zone substantially limit the amount of heat conducted to the cold electrodes in the initial phase of combustion. At the same time, they do not inhibit spreading of the flame front to the combustion chamber during usual operation." With that being said and the general construction of the plug, I was sold.

WHAT ABOUT HEAT RANGE?!?!?!

credit: MSD Spark Plugs! GET'EM IN YOUR HEAD!​

These 3730's are at a heat range of 5 on the MSD scale, how that converts is they are going to be in the same heat range as the Autolite 5235 Coppers. So that will put the MSD 3730's right underneath the Champion RE16MC's (the hottest), in terms of testing. ALSO, since I have been running Bosch 9606 which are a significantly colder plug, there will be a change. BUT with the MSD's and the construction and how they are built with the spark plug itself the more powerful spark coupled with a hotter heat range is going to make for some fantastic results on our little 2.0/2.4 engines. At least that is what it is looking like on paper.

Another thing to consider is the gap of the MSD 3730's as they come out of the box as .040". Me, I will be adjusting the gap to meet the stock 2.0 recommendation or .043". While I did run the Champions at a higher gap, I want to go back to the stock gap with the more powerful spark and not cause too much detonation and or cause pre-detonation. I can always go bigger based on the way Aya performs with the stock gap of .043". I don't really like running less than stock gap and this is the reason why I will be adjusting the MSD's when I receive them.

With all of that being said......... I haven't received them yet from Jeg's. They should be arriving in my mailbox on Saturday and I will hopefully get a chance to install them next week. Jeg's had a great sale on them ($32 w/ free shipping (reg. $35)) and I scooped up the deal when I got a chance. @SolNine if you are still out there and would like to give some real world experiences on your MSD's that would be great for the community as I will share my thoughts as well once mine come in and get installed.

Until then if you would like even more information on the MSD brand here is a great .pdf on their website: http://www.msdperformance.com/MSDInYourHead/MSD_Spark_Plug_Home.aspx. As always, if you all have any other questions comments or concerns, please feel free to let me know or reach out to me.

 

[Sonnyllb]

You all have me really confused on these spark plugs, the msds and the accell plugs are really expensive, I cant find the Champion #433, Im going to order the Autolite 5325's, will I be good to go with them?

 

[Anch]

You all have me really confused on these spark plugs, the msds and the accell plugs are really expensive, I cant find the Champion #433, Im going to order the Autolite 5325's, will I be good to go with them?

You won't have problem with the autolite 5325 they are a safe bet. I install them past june gap at 0.55 and last october I reduce the gap to 0.47 and they were looking like new. My only concern was how will they perform on cold start but so far at -20c they are better than the stock.

 

[GTPete]

The Autolite plugs are awesome. I have absolutely no regrets with this choice.

 

[DRVNCRZ]

Spark Plug Alternatives

good morning ladies and germs,

so i've been doing a lot of research, again, on spark plugs for the 2.0. come to find out the 2013 dodge durango 5.7 and the 2.0 use the same spec plugs. i was able to confirm this by contacting a few dealers like champion, ngk, and e3 and the same plugs they carry for the durango will indeed fit the 2.0.

so with that being said i am not one to leave a theory in the wind so i've been testing a set of the e3 diamond fire spark plugs for almost 2000 miles........what a friggin' difference. the only reason the others are not listed under the dart is because the "manufacturer" recommends iridiums....what about the alternatives!?!?!? the e3's i have pulled after 2000 miles and they still look brand spankin' new. i have had no check engine lights, breakage, or other issues some people have had apparently just really good performance. the mpg is marginal since i am lead foot.....big surprise. to make a long story short any of the following spark plugs will work for the 2.0:

- Autolite Iridium XP - Part # XP5325
- Autolite Double Platinum - Part # APP5325
- Autolite Platinum - Part # AP5325
- Autolite Copper Core - Part # 5325
- Champion Iridium - Part # 9055
- Champion Copper Plus - Part # 446
- Denso Iridium - Part # 3417
- Bosch Fine Wire Iridium - Part # 9673
- Bosch Fine Wire Platinum - Part # 6734
- NGK Laser Platinum - Part # 97606
- NGK Copper Core - Part # 92174
- E3 Spark Plugs Diamond Fire - Part # E3.68

i did the leg work already but if you want to compare all of the spark plug specs to each other you can which you will find they are the same. i just wanted to help out the 2.0 community to some spark plug alternatives. anyways this is drvncrz.....out..............:wink: