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Hello....relatively new owner of a Dart Rallye 1.4l turbo w/6-speed manual (just turned 1500 miles) and was wondering about the traction control. Is it truly _off_ in the off position? If not, what part of it is still being controlled? Is it best to leave it off for most normal driving conditions until it gets nasty weather...what's the preferred use of this control? Thanks for any info!
 

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Unless you want a little old style driving feel and also want to take off faster when you dump the clutch, leave it on. Plus, it's annoying to turn it off every time you turn the car on.
 

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Keep it on for regular driving! Think of ABS Brakes... you wouldn't shut them off (if you could) and only turn them on when you need them would you? Because you might not have the oppurtunity to turn them when you need them... Same idea goes for the traction control.

I can't answer your question as to what else is controlled by On/Off... but I do know that part of the traction system involves the mechanism where the car corrects for over/understeering!
 

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I've had it in other vehicles (Matrix (manual), Compass (manual), Liberty) and the only time I shut it "off" is when I was starting off an in icy condition that I couldn't get going on.
 

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The truly annoying part to me is that little yellow light that I'm not used to (distracting me). I'm not sure I'll ever get used to it actually but I know that was Chrysler's intention in making it that way.

I haven't found this cars traction control to be especially invasive or bothersome like the others I've experienced. Sure it'll kick on but it doesn't immediately kill all your power and not at the first sign of slip. I can get a pretty good slip with only a little bit of TC light flashing and I've yet to find myself stuck in an intersection wishing I had power but seeing nothing but TC light flashing like crazy.

I guess I could've just said I like it for the most part :D
 

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The only time I've ever needed to turn off the traction control was in snowy and/or icy conditions where I needed to generate wheel spin to make forward progress, like getting up the hill into my driveway. Failure to turn of the traction control in these kind of conditions leads to the expensive smell of overheated brake linings. Ask me how I now this.
 

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I've also had to turn off traction control in my '09 Challenger. I was stuck on a flat parking lot because the stupid traction control kept BRAKING for me because I was "losing traction" (aka trying to start moving).
 

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I've also had to turn off traction control in my '09 Challenger. I was stuck on a flat parking lot because the stupid traction control kept BRAKING for me because I was "losing traction" (aka trying to start moving).
Don't you just love it?
 

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Don't you just love it?
It was embarassing! Since then I've purchased winter wheels/tires, and learned how to turn the traction control all the way off. Unfortunately, the same procedure doesn't work in the Dart.

If anyone knows how to totally disable ESC / ESP / hill-start assist / stall-or-jump / whatever they want to call that, I'm totally open to ideas. I've seen info about pulling fuses, which would be fine for a day at the autocross races, but I'd like to do something permenant. I wish there was a disclaimer you could sign and just get a car without the technocrap. My '96 Neon (no ABS, let alone the other "magic featuers") far outperforms so-called faster cars because it does what i tell it to.
 

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I haven't found a reason to shut mine off. I don't find it invasive and after the winter I just went through I'm certainly a believer. Kept me glued to the road all winter no matter what the conditions were.
 
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According to the manual, all 'ESC off' will do is make it where you can spin the tires in a straight line. ABS, Brake Assist, Electronic Roll Mitigation, Hill Start Assist, and Traction Control(over/understeer parts) all remain active.
Any way that you can turn it completely off? Doing some track stuff and it keeps braking when I get the slightest amount of oversteer...
 

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Wow you must be really driving it hard Slowinski. I can't get mine to intervene in the dry, even if I am driving like I stole it.
 

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Oh you know it :p It happens when the change in direction is quite fast. So coming from a right turn, hard braking into a left. You can feel the back end wanting to take over the front. Thats when it kicks in. I also feel like its braking is way too much for whats actually needed to correct for it. Just wish there was a way that it would go completely off.
 

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Oh you know it :p It happens when the change in direction is quite fast. So coming from a right turn, hard braking into a left. You can feel the back end wanting to take over the front. Thats when it kicks in. I also feel like its braking is way too much for whats actually needed to correct for it. Just wish there was a way that it would go completely off.
I'll have to try it next track day. You can combat that by progressively releasing the brake as you move through / into the corner. In the end you really want to limit sudden weight transfer, and remember the 100% rule. Slowly releasing the brake will allow weight to transfer back to the rear before / as you need it. Getting it back earlier is best so you can get back in the throttle, push through the under steer (quirk of FWD cars) until the weight settles back on the outside tires. So accel out right, brake hard, begin turn backing of backing off backing off, throttle throttle throttle. Remember brakes are quick on slow off while throttle is quick off slow on (generally speaking).

Something like a increasing apex right into a decreasing apex left will really get you all undone. Trail braking is an art. Keep at it.

If you really want to try it without ABS /Stability intervention back a wheel speed sensor out away from the tone ring or unplug it. That will turn on you ABS light yes, but it will also disable everything abs related. Honestly I wouldn't recommend it unless you are running at a track with proper safety gear. And I don't condone any activity race related on the street. Seriously, weight transfer issues at high speed will literally get you killed. The stuff above becomes pretty ragged edge when performed at speeds over 90 / 100. What you can feel as the back wanting to take over the front goes from time to acknowledge and correct to it happened and it is over. The faster you go the more you have to prevent the situation form arising because there is no recovery. Be careful.
 

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It was embarassing! Since then I've purchased winter wheels/tires, and learned how to turn the traction control all the way off. Unfortunately, the same procedure doesn't work in the Dart.

If anyone knows how to totally disable ESC / ESP / hill-start assist / stall-or-jump / whatever they want to call that, I'm totally open to ideas. I've seen info about pulling fuses, which would be fine for a day at the autocross races, but I'd like to do something permenant. I wish there was a disclaimer you could sign and just get a car without the technocrap. My '96 Neon (no ABS, let alone the other "magic featuers") far outperforms so-called faster cars because it does what i tell it to.

Looks like by removing f11 your abs will still be active. Unless pulling the fuse with that part of the ecm disables it... I'm sorta confused...
 

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The only time I've ever needed to turn off the traction control was in snowy and/or icy conditions where I needed to generate wheel spin to make forward progress, like getting up the hill into my driveway. Failure to turn of the traction control in these kind of conditions leads to the expensive smell of overheated brake linings. Ask me how I now this.
Unlike older cars that had cable operated throttle controls, newer cars with drive by wire (little motor controls the throttle body) simply use the ECM to back off on the throttle automatically. Its as if you simply let up off the gas pedal, no brake actuation with straight line wheel spin. I know older systems used the ABS system or ignition cut to limit power to the ground.

I find the Dart doesn't intervene too badly in most cases. I've had to turn off traction control only once this winter and that was when trying to free myself from a plowed in driveway that I stupidly tried to leave without shoveling. The wheel spin was required to keep the tires cleaned out and keep them biting, otherwise the tires just gummed up with snow and wouldn't bite. As far as I can tell, pressing the TCS off button only disables straight line wheel spin traction control. It does not disable yaw (side to side) stability control. It will intervene if you are trying to be an idiot and "drift" your front wheel drive car in the snow.

One more thing, it looks like by removing fuse F11, you will also disable the ECM. No ECM = no engine running. But disabling the ABS by removing the fuse will disable the stability control system as that system relies on ABS to activate the brakes to keep the car stable. I would imagine it would throw codes like crazy though and likely put the car in limp mode if I had to guess.
 

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I have had the traction control damn near stall me out in deep snow. This is the first vehicle I have owned with traction control and it took me half the winter to realize that I'm better off with t/c off in heavy snow conditions.
 
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