Dodge Dart Forum banner

61 - 80 of 95 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
696 Posts
Cypris,

What recall please. I have a 2013 1.4/DDCT with 23K and it did the same thing for the first time this morning. Service transmission, rough going into gear and shifting erratically. And that was just after starting the car in the morning, so I know neither the engine or transmission was hot. I guess I am going to call in work in the morning and attempt to take the car into my dodge dealership.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pretty Boy Floyd

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
So mine looks like a similar issue a few of you have reported. Some kind of hydraulic fluid leak related to the DDC. Of course this comes 2nd hand from the "service adviser" so we'll see. Regardless, the guy said Chrysler is out of stock of replacement parts so it could be a couple weeks before I get my car back...nice.
Annnnnnnd, I'm back...same issue at 81k miles. Just had it towed to dealer. Will post updates as I get them. The car has been mostly flawless outside of this mess, ungh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
So the dealer found nothing and couldn't duplicate the issue. Found some code about an evap switch and replaced that to apparently charge me my deductible...anyway car drove fine for about a week and went out today to start it...same issue! This time its going to my "home" dealer and they will keep it till they figure it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
So, this looks like the same thing that I've been dealing with, or at least very VERY closely related.

2013 Limited / 1.4T / DDCT. Both recalls have been completed. Second owner, purchased at ~32,800 miles or so. 3/36 was aged out already.

Car was originally bought at [Dealer A], serviced exclusively at [Dealer A] and [Dealer B], who are both part of the same group and only a few miles away from each other. There's a stack of paperwork on this car, repair orders beginning the very next month after it was purchased new, showing the service transmission / check engine light combination. All of them from the two sister dealerships. It was traded in at [Dealer A], who then put it on their front line and sold it to me. (This was done in a "good faith belief that they'd repaired the problem ... this time.")

There are any number of symptoms that can pop up as part of it: magical redline without acceleration, 'Gear Not Available' messages, loss of rear view camera and blind spot warnings, engine shutdowns, engine declining to start again after coming to a stop... all sorts of things.

They appear to have replaced the PCM / BCM / TCM multiple times, each, and have reprogrammed them multiple times in addition to the replacements. Nothing has fixed this car.

I bought this thing in May, and it's happened to me 3 times now. (4, depending on whether you count the first two as separate incidents or one big long deal.)

The first time, I limped to the dealer with only first gear and sixth gear available, and the service advisor pulled some codes... but by the time he drove it around to the back? Everything was back to normal. All the codes were reset, the CEL and service transmission light were both off. They reflashed the BCM and sent me on my way. Problem could not be duplicated.

Next time it happened, the engine just stopped. Called the dealer, they wanted me to make an appointment for late the next week, and by the time I got there the codes were almost all auto-cleared by the system. They told me to drive to them next time, if I could make it, but didn't even take the car in b/c there wasn't anything they could even look at.

Third time, it happened on the freeway past the exit where I'd get off to go to the dealer I purchased from, and I went back to the dealer closest to my house. They couldn't get me in, but they pulled codes... and holy hell, there were a LOT of them. (See below)

Anyway, based on the VIP Summary Report, there's 9 repairs to the vehicle that have involved the PCM / TCM / BCM, and the repair orders I've seen from the previous owner (only 4 out of the 9 relevant ones) all explicitly describe Service Transmission light and weirdness with how it shifts or getting stuck in gear or getting stuck out of gear or ... etc. I'd love to get a look at the first 5, and the other three that explicitly are about electrical problems with the car but which don't show PCM/BCM/TCM/Transmission on the Summary Report.

Anyway. Yeah. I've got a STAR case going, as well as a CAIR.

Case manager says I can keep the rental as long as necessary, because they're not giving me back my Dart unless they truly believe that they've really found and solved the problem this time.



 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
I've got a thread about this in the electrical issues section, since I'm reasonably sure that (for my car, at least) it's an electrical problem rather than a mechanical problem.


Here's the short version, without all the details of how I found out each little thing:

My car (2013 Limited, 1.4, DDCT) was originally purchased from [Dealer A] in December, 2012 as a present for a girl from her parents. It was serviced exclusively at [Dealer A] and [Dealer B] (a sister store of A, owned by the same people) for it's whole life. It was then traded in at [Dealer A], who turned it around and put it on the front line as a very nice used car. I got dragged to [Dealer A] on someone else's entirely unrelated business and wandered around the lot out of boredom, and wound up trading my 2008 Saab, entirely trouble-free at 95,000 miles, and buying the Dart.

Well, come to find out, since about a month after the original in-service date, the Dart has been nothing but a nightmare for the very sort of issues that y'all're having, and that I described in detail in the first post on that linked thread. There are 9 repair orders in the VIP summary that are relevant, at least 5 of which explicitly describe the same symptoms that I'm encountering. 4 more are almost certainly connected (they reference the PCM/TCM/BCM in the headline of the VIP Summary), and there are three more that are possibly connected, but only have more vague electrical-related descriptions.

I have a repair order of my own already (dealer only reflashed the BCM), and the Dart is in the shop again right now. I've had 3 incidents so far (6500 miles or so since purchase in May) and in 2 out of the 3 the car turned off on the freeway in heavy traffic. The first incident, it didn't turn off, but it lost everything other than 1st and 6th gears. No 2-3-4-5 or R. It also killed off the key fob receiver (bad, when you have pushbutton start) and ... something else. Can't remember what off the top of my head.

This car has never gone more than 6200 miles without having to go back to the dealer for something, and the average is 2633 between visits.

Right now I've (finally) got a CAIR of my own going (the previous owner's CAIR appears to still be open, as well, and it was about the same issues), and I've been getting some very good traction. The Dart has been at the dealer for 6 days now, and my case manager says they'll pony up for the rental for as long as necessary, because they will NOT give me the Dart back unless they truly believe that it's been fixed.

I asked [Dealer A]'s GM why they put that car back out on the lot with the massive stack of paper very clearly documenting the issue and all the times they'd tried to fix it. His response was "we sold you that car in the good faith belief that our highly-skilled technicians had repaired the problem... that time." (Which (a) means that you knew about the problem, because you can't fix what you don't know about; (2) knew that it was a VERY VERY VERY REPEATED problem, because you can't have a 'good faith belief' that it was repaired 'this time' if you don't know that it happened repeatedly before. Also, (D) does that mean that the rest of the repair orders on that were not done with a 'good faith belief' that it was fixed? Because, seriously: how many times can your 'good faith belief' be proven wrong before you just start to look gullible?

The service manager's commentary was far more simple and to the point: "We don't build 'em, we just sell 'em. And sometimes we fix 'em. If we can." She followed this up with: "If you're so unhappy with the car you bought, then you should just call Chrysler and ask them to buy it back. Oh, right, you bought a used car, so you're probably stuck with it."

I don't want the car bought back. I want it fixed. And so I did call Chrysler, right on the way home. Got a case number, and the very next morning they worked in a spot in their service dept for my car. Of course, nothing was diagnosed, but the case manager has been ON THEM about it, and they got the STAR team involved now. They've got a set of troubleshooting procedures tomorrow that the STAR team wants them to do which will culminate (possibly) in replacing the valve body. We'll see if that makes a difference or not... I can understand how the valve might cause a P1C99-00, but ... I don't really understand how it could cause the Power Steering Control Module to send invalid data to, for instance, the ABS. (see image below) But hey, that's why I'm doing mech engineering for my current company and not for Chrysler, I guess.

We'll see what comes out of it all. I've seen mixed results in forum posts about the valve body fixing things.

Incidentally, I'm a little furious at [Dealer A] right now. This was the third car we've bought from them in 6 years, and I had to go all the way to Chrysler to get the dealership to even treat me like an adult that knows how to tie a pair of damn shoes. They flat-out KNEW or should reasonably have known what the situation was with this car. They'd tried (and failed) to fix it for it's entire life. They should NEVER have put it back out on the lot to re-sell. That should have gone to auction. Let it be someone else's problem instead. Because now? It's going to be a big problem, unless they fix it or find some other way to make me happy. And I put this one entirely on the dealer. Chrysler has been absolutely awesome in communication and responsiveness. I expect to hear back from the case manager again tomorrow on the dealership issues.



(Below image shows the list of codes pulled after the most recent incident. I limped to the nearest dealer, who could not at that time get me in to the shop, but they pulled the codes and let me take a picture of the information.)

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
8 days in, they've decided to go ahead and replace the transmission, so, we'll see how things go after that. Apparently when you shift badly enough times you start putting metal chips in the oil pan.

I'm definitely happy to get a new transmission, but I'm not sure how this is going to, for instance, resolve the PCM getting bad data from the BCM, or the power steering module getting bad ABS data. So, hey- I'll go ahead and drive it, but I'll be running some data logging, that much is for damn sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Wow, that sucks but it seems you have a lot more going on than what i have or most in this thread do. My current situation is that its at my home dealer now and just like the last dealer a few weeks ago, is not throwing up any codes so they want to give it back. I also have a STAR case opened and my case manager is supposed to be contacting the dealer to discuss next steps but I really don't know what they are at this time. Regardless, I don't want the car back until they fix it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
Oh, how interesting.

The dealership believes that metal chips in the transmission oil pan are somehow shorting out the rest of the computers in the car.

I could buy P1C99-00, but C15CA-00? U110E-00? I fail to understand what, inside the transmission, could possibly interfere with those. If it's possible for a mechanical issue in the transmission to mess with stuff like that, then this car is well and truly screwed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
Oh look. I got my car back today after 17 days and a new transmission, and it's all fixed, according to the service department.

On the way home from the dealership I started seeing it rev to >5k in between gears while shifting. Unfortunately I didn't have my tablet with me when I picked the car up, so no logging with Torque (at that point, anyway--I got a snapshot of it later, though). Then, had to make a stop at a grocery store, and when I came back out, this happened:


(as the video title suggests, in addition to the obvious visual cues, the AC was blowing hotter than hell.)

Shut it off, turned it back on again. The AC worked again, buuuuuut now the CEL is on, and check out that avg gas mileage! I don't know how the hell you can get a 1.4 to get that sort of gas mileage short of WOT on a track with all sorts of mods.


Oh, and I didn't notice it at the time, but my bluetooth doesn't work anymore, either.

Go home, grab the tablet and plug in the BT adapter and have a look...

Screenshot_2016-09-20-03-13-24.png


Yep. Looks like the car was fixed, all right. My case manager will be getting copies of all this stuff tomorrow, as will the service advisor.

And hey- what the hell. Let the transmission eat itself. I've got enough left on my powertrain warranty to do this 3 more times, maybe 4.

Game on, Chrysler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
Maybe this is a stupid question, but does anyone know what the book hours are for replacing a DDCT in one of these cars?

Reason I ask is, I stopped by the dealer on Friday after work, so very damn near COB, and was informed by the service adviser that they hadn't even started the replacement yet. They only have one guy who's certified to work on the DDCT, and he'd been injured somehow and out all week.

Today, I get a call at 1245 letting me know that my car was ready to be picked up. The certified tech is still out, and someone else did it. They don't work a full day on Saturdays, and are closed on Sunday. Somehow, though, they managed to get this done when their certified tech was out with an injury, and there were a maximum of, say, 12 man-hours that a single tech could have applied to my car? A tech who hasn't been through the training on it, so is presumably not as skilled--and therefore not as fast--as the guy who is certified?

Does that pass the smell test for y'all?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
Check this out: I actually managed to catch the shifting issue as it happened while data logging with Torque.

This is the last couple minutes of driving, from a stoplight through a turn into my neighborhood then a second turn onto my street. I pulled up past my house and came to a stop, then backed into my driveway. While pulling past the house, the transmission shifted from first up to second, and that's when the RPM spike happened. You can see it between about 935 and 955 on the graph below.

The two big accelerometer spikes at the end happened because of how sharply sloped my driveway is- first one is stopping with brakes, second one is from putting it in park and letting off the brake pedal.

(incidentally, accelerometer values are multiplied by 100 in order to even be visible on the chart.)



edit: looking at it again, I think the gears finally engaged correctly at time 944, rather than where I'd marked it. That's about when I started to bear down on the gas again.


incident graph.png
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
Yep, turns out that it's the battery that's causing all my problems. Just change the battery, and it will magically start shifting perfectly and never throw another code.

This is totally proved for definites by taking a 24 mile test drive, and they're super cereal about it.

Of course, the dealer is not particularly interested in looking into the question of why the battery has been replaced so many times...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Results of my latest trip to the dealer resulted in replacing the "valve body/hydraulic assembly" supposedly unrelated to when they replaced the actuator and slave cylinder last year. I have zero confidence in this transmission and don't think I have another choice but to dump this car before the powertrain warranty expires. Shame.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
Results of my latest trip to the dealer resulted in replacing the "valve body/hydraulic assembly" supposedly unrelated to when they replaced the actuator and slave cylinder last year. I have zero confidence in this transmission and don't think I have another choice but to dump this car before the powertrain warranty expires. Shame.

Try and get them to inspect the gear oil, and reference STAR Report #1527474.

Also, and this seems possibly unrelated, but seriously: have them check your battery.


Capture.JPG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
That's from my second-to-most-recent repair order, the one where they replaced the transmission.

You're shifting okay because the hydraulics are fixed... but that does NOT mean that your gear teeth aren't--at least partially--sitting in the bottom of the gear oil. Have them check the gear oil for for a 'dark color and bad smell' as cited above and have them talk to STAR about the case number listed above.

You may have to actually argue with them, or open up a case with Chrysler, to get them to actually even look into it. My case manager was the one that started the ball rolling with STAR, not the dealership. If it were up to the dealership, they would have sent me home with 'could not duplicate customer concerns.' Yet again.

Explain to them that, since it was shifting THAT POORLY for so long, you're concerned that there's damage inside the transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
That's from my second-to-most-recent repair order, the one where they replaced the transmission.

You're shifting okay because the hydraulics are fixed... but that does NOT mean that your gear teeth aren't--at least partially--sitting in the bottom of the gear oil. Have them check the gear oil for for a 'dark color and bad smell' as cited above and have them talk to STAR about the case number listed above.

You may have to actually argue with them, or open up a case with Chrysler, to get them to actually even look into it. My case manager was the one that started the ball rolling with STAR, not the dealership. If it were up to the dealership, they would have sent me home with 'could not duplicate customer concerns.' Yet again.

Explain to them that, since it was shifting THAT POORLY for so long, you're concerned that there's damage inside the transmission.

Interesting thanks. I do still have a case opened with Chrysler but also have the car back now "running well". I wonder if I could even get them to take it back again. FWIW they found code PICA1-00.
 
61 - 80 of 95 Posts
Top