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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As I continue with my "hobby" of researching cars I can't afford to buy, I am seeing a fast paced trend of everything that gives me the creeps ever expanding into the market.
V8's exist but are tortured with Displacement On Demand when no one wants that. (except maybe trucks - that doesn't count in my research.)
V6's are hard to find but when they pop up, they too have DOD. Wow.
4 cyls have pretty much taken over - even on luxury cars - with 2.0T's. Fairly large cars getting these little guys.
I won't even mention the final blow to all cars ...... start / stop.
Then, when I think of a lower priced "fun" little car that is written about almost in a religious tone, like a Miata, I find out that they are noisy as sin and drivers find it hard to tolerate a long highway ride due to noise levels. So, it's the same in reverse: Cost,Mileage, Performance, Comfort. You can not have it all in most cases. And when you do find it all, there's guaranteed to be something you dislike.
Some of the tv commercials are the best part of some cars. Like the Volvo S90. It's like "Even the fox along the road is impressed". But, it sums up the fantasy mindset I try to have on those early AM drives.
The East and the West are mine. The North and the South.... ugh..... beautifully done.

Re post of commercial.... why would it become null ?

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I find that I am pretty much disliking every new car made. I know they are more comfortable, better equipped, more powerful, get better MPG, ect., ect., than ever before...but for me there is a disconnect from "the feel" of driving. It takes away the joy of it, IMO. I love the quite comfort of my Dart, especially sitting in ATL traffic or a medium road trip...but get me out on the open road I'd rather be in my Neon, or even the Mrs 2001 Durango on a long road trip. Even though 30+MPG >15+MPG...it's not quite as satisfying when you are rolling down the highway, and not hearing the grumble of the engine/exhaust and the sounds of the tires rolling down the road.
 

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I find that I am pretty much disliking every new car made. I know they are more comfortable, better equipped, more powerful, get better MPG, ect., ect., than ever before...but for me there is a disconnect from "the feel" of driving. It takes away the joy of it, IMO. I love the quite comfort of my Dart, especially sitting in ATL traffic or a medium road trip...but get me out on the open road I'd rather be in my Neon, or even the Mrs 2001 Durango on a long road trip. Even though 30+MPG >15+MPG...it's not quite as satisfying when you are rolling down the highway, and not hearing the grumble of the engine/exhaust and the sounds of the tires rolling down the road.[/QUOTE

Don't forget the dreaded CVT! I had a hard time finding a smallish inexpensive car without one! Dart!
 

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I find that I am pretty much disliking every new car made. I know they are more comfortable, better equipped, more powerful, get better MPG, ect., ect., than ever before...but for me there is a disconnect from "the feel" of driving. It takes away the joy of it, IMO. I love the quite comfort of my Dart, especially sitting in ATL traffic or a medium road trip...but get me out on the open road I'd rather be in my Neon, or even the Mrs 2001 Durango on a long road trip. Even though 30+MPG >15+MPG...it's not quite as satisfying when you are rolling down the highway, and not hearing the grumble of the engine/exhaust and the sounds of the tires rolling down the road.
A long road trip... in a Neon? Eh, I'll take my bicycle, thanks. ;) I can drive my Dart for 10+ hours and not feel tired or stiff, and that makes it unique in all the cars I've ever encountered. And the muted howl of the 1.4T/DDCT drivetrain at almost 3000rpm, the thrumming of the tires at 70mph, the sheer connectedness I have with the road... well, it can make me smile when nothing else will. The Dart was somewhat unique in having quirky character in a class of car mostly known for bland homogeneity. It also has styling that should age well, unlike many of its competitors. I'm curious what a "refreshed" Dart would have looked like, because there really isn't a lot, style-wise, that could be improved much, at least in my opinion. But what's done is done, and we'll never know that now. Unless something changes, it's likely that I'm done with FCA for now, at least for my own vehicular wants and needs. I have nothing against them, and own two Dodge vehicles that have been very good to me, but they don't really sell anything that appeals to me, and if I had to get a new car now my first choice would be to convince my wife that I can afford a Focus RS, and when that invariably failed, seriously consider the Focus ST or the 2.3T Mustang. Sure, it's possible I end up not loving any of those cars, but they at least interest me enough to get me in the dealership, and car dealerships still need us to go to them.
 

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I'm more in agreement with @loxmith. I could drive my '95 Neon for 18 hours and never turn the radio on, just listen to the music of the engine. It's hard to put into words but when one has had a car completely apart, and knows every detail, it becomes a part of you. I want to keep that Neon forever so it rests in the garage all winter and hardly ever goes out in the rain. The '98 Neon may not last as long, it's seen too much road salt and no longer has a garage space. I'm all Mopar so I'm giving the Darts a chance. So far I'm not disappointed. The Darts are what my wife wanted for the long trips to see our children and grandchildren. The more I learn about them, the more I like them. At age 69, I don't think I'll ever be driving something that isn't Mopar.
 

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A long road trip... in a Neon? Eh, I'll take my bicycle, thanks. ;) I can drive my Dart for 10+ hours and not feel tired or stiff, and that makes it unique in all the cars I've ever encountered. And the muted howl of the 1.4T/DDCT drivetrain at almost 3000rpm, the thrumming of the tires at 70mph, the sheer connectedness I have with the road... well, it can make me smile when nothing else will. The Dart was somewhat unique in having quirky character in a class of car mostly known for bland homogeneity. It also has styling that should age well, unlike many of its competitors. I'm curious what a "refreshed" Dart would have looked like, because there really isn't a lot, style-wise, that could be improved much, at least in my opinion. But what's done is done, and we'll never know that now. Unless something changes, it's likely that I'm done with FCA for now, at least for my own vehicular wants and needs. I have nothing against them, and own two Dodge vehicles that have been very good to me, but they don't really sell anything that appeals to me, and if I had to get a new car now my first choice would be to convince my wife that I can afford a Focus RS, and when that invariably failed, seriously consider the Focus ST or the 2.3T Mustang. Sure, it's possible I end up not loving any of those cars, but they at least interest me enough to get me in the dealership, and car dealerships still need us to go to them.
So if I am honest, as it sits right now, my Neon would be my last choice for roadtrips. My son had it for 6 month, and he took out the SRS seats and put in those :censored: awful Viper inspired seats. Right now, it's not a big deal for me but if I ever have to go back to daily driving my Neon, or take it for a long roadtrip, the air bag seats are going back in. Still even with those :censored: Viper seats, if I were taking a small day trip just for the fun of driving I would pic my Neon over my Dart. My wife doesn't really agree with me on that though. LoL! She likes the open road, but she doesn't appreciate the visceral experience as much as I do. I think her first choice would be the Dart, or the Durango if she is dragging the kids with us.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So if I am honest, as it sits right now, my Neon would be my last choice for roadtrips. My son had it for 6 month, and he took out the SRS seats and put in those :censored: awful Viper inspired seats. Right now, it's not a big deal for me but if I ever have to go back to daily driving my Neon, or take it for a long roadtrip, the air bag seats are going back in. Still even with those :censored: Viper seats, if I were taking a small day trip just for the fun of driving I would pic my Neon over my Dart. My wife doesn't really agree with me on that though. LoL! She likes the open road, but she doesn't appreciate the visceral experience as much as I do. I think her first choice would be the Dart, or the Durango if she is dragging the kids with us.
Interesting. And makes a good point. Assuming you're going to make the odd "longer road trip", many of the smaller sporty marketed cars lose their luster. You need a certain amount of mass , weight, and seats that aren't made for hard track duty. Even drivers that aren't too large or fat like me find some of these Recaro torture bolsters a bit much. Some of the high end makes are trying their hardest to make the great compromise between comfort and performance but they never end up looking all that sporty. Take BMW for example. Even their sportiest models look like pedestrian Hondas. The day someone builds a Corvette looking Godzilla as a Grand Tourer is the day I'll hand out awards.
 

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Interesting. And makes a good point. Assuming you're going to make the odd "longer road trip", many of the smaller sporty marketed cars lose their luster. You need a certain amount of mass , weight, and seats that aren't made for hard track duty. Even drivers that aren't too large or fat like me find some of these Recaro torture bolsters a bit much. Some of the high end makes are trying their hardest to make the great compromise between comfort and performance but they never end up looking all that sporty. Take BMW for example. Even their sportiest models look like pedestrian Hondas. The day someone builds a Corvette looking Godzilla as a Grand Tourer is the day I'll hand out awards.
I have taken my Neon out for a few track days and done some autocrossing with it, and yeah, I would have loved to have had the Viper Seats then! But as far as daily driving, I am 6'3" 275 lbs...those seats just weren't designed for the likes of me. LoL!
 

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I find the majority of new cars uninspiring. If i had to buy new now i'd want a WRX sti first, Focus RS 2nd...they fit in garage. BUT, i really want a electric blue Charger scatback or similar
 

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I find the majority of new cars uninspiring. If i had to buy new now i'd want a WRX sti first, Focus RS 2nd...they fit in garage. BUT, i really want a electric blue Charger scatback or similar
Are you talking about the B5 Scatpack? That is what i am looking at or maybe another white car? Not sure just yet? That blue is awesome!
 

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Are you talking about the B5 Scatpack? That is what i am looking at or maybe another white car? Not sure just yet? That blue is awesome!
Honestly, i'm not 100% schooled on packaging but ScatBack, SRT...any aggressive Charger in that blue would work for me if pressed. That said , its out of my range. On a positive my family says the red Giullia on the commercial reminds them of my ride...i'll take that. :)
 

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Honestly, i'm not 100% schooled on packaging but ScatBack, SRT...any aggressive Charger in that blue would work for me if pressed. That said , its out of my range. On a positive my family says the red Giullia on the commercial reminds them of my ride...i'll take that. :)
I think the Scatpack is the best value in the line up. I like the black spoiler. I am going to order one for my Dart. The Giulla is nice as well. I think it was supposed to based on the Dart frame, but they may have changed from that plan. When I purchased my Dart the plan was to keep it 2 or 3 years. It's been almost a year already!
 

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I think the Scatpack is the best value in the line up. I like the black spoiler. I am going to order one for my Dart. The Giulla is nice as well. I think it was supposed to based on the Dart frame, but they may have changed from that plan. When I purchased my Dart the plan was to keep it 2 or 3 years. It's been almost a year already!
My plan was 4 to 5 years on this Dart. 13 months in and it flew by... Love this car, its my fave car since my 68 Buick GS400 in high school. I've not seen its twin on the road EVER... Closest thing i've seen is a 2016 orange ralley with sport hood.

Some Dodge models, like ours, are very individual, not a "1984" blend in, cookie cutter, guppy looking car. Even WRX and GTi owners dig my ride. When washed, it gets a crap-load of attention.

This is the most eye-balling I've had of one of my own cars since i had the very first Mazda 3s 2.3 in volcano red back in 2004. I was the only 3 on the road for a few months it seemed....But my Dart GT hammers that mazda on the attention factor, and i bought mine in the 3rd or 4th year of model run just before FCA announced discontinuation. Ha ha ha...no remorse, just opposite....Love being the only one around.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Given the money for an upper end car of sport,comfort and toy appeal, with everyday and long trip useability, I'd have to say the Lexus R series over my beloved Corvette . After all these years of quality promises, GM just never delivers.
An RC 350 would do nicely.
 

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When my wife got her 14 Dart GT I was driving a 13 Focus ST. The ST road better especially on bad roads, was quieter, got the same mileage and out performed the Dart in every measure. She would have been better served with a Dart Limited but she had her heart set on Header Orange. The reason the Dart got the nod at all was it was enough bigger that it easily swallowed a rear facing car seat, something the Focus didn't. I wanted her to go with a 200, Fusion or Malibu but she didn't a car that large.

In 15 I traded the ST for an Ecoboost Mustang with the Performance Package. It rides better especially on rough pavement, even with the Performance Package suspension, is quieter and gets with in one mpg of the Dart. Of course it is a true performance car and there is no comparison with the Dart.

The Ecoboost Mustang is also a true performance bargain. You can get a base Ecoboost Mustang for less the $25k which is still very well equiped. I got my Premium with all the goodies and the Performance Package for $29k

When it's time to replace the Dart I am going to try and talk my wife into a Fusion Sport with the 2.7 turbo v6.


Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #17
When my wife got her 14 Dart GT I was driving a 13 Focus ST. The ST road better especially on bad roads, was quieter, got the same mileage and out performed the Dart in every measure. She would have been better served with a Dart Limited but she had her heart set on Header Orange. The reason the Dart got the nod at all was it was enough bigger that it easily swallowed a rear facing car seat, something the Focus didn't. I wanted her to go with a 200, Fusion or Malibu but she didn't a car that large.

In 15 I traded the ST for an Ecoboost Mustang with the Performance Package. It rides better especially on rough pavement, even with the Performance Package suspension, is quieter and gets with in one mpg of the Dart. Of course it is a true performance car and there is no comparison with the Dart.

The Ecoboost Mustang is also a true performance bargain. You can get a base Ecoboost Mustang for less the $25k which is still very well equiped. I got my Premium with all the goodies and the Performance Package for $29k

When it's time to replace the Dart I am going to try and talk my wife into a Fusion Sport with the 2.7 turbo v6.


Dave
Has Ford fixed the problems with shuddering, stalling, etc with their Ecoboost products?
 

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Having owned two Ecoboost cars I have never heard of a shuddering or stalling problem. I am on multiple forums for the ST and Mustang and have not heard it mentioned by anyone. If there is one it's not related to the 2.0 in the Focus ST or the 2.3 in the Mustang.

I certainly haven't had any issues with either of mine. The ST had 35k on it when I traded it in and the Mustang has just turned over 35k and neither of them have ever been in the service department of the dealer.

Dave
 

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I'm probably going to keep my dart until I destroy it. Fiancé will most likely trade her 200 in for an Audi s3 or rs3 if I can convince her that we "need" the rs3
 

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Has Ford fixed the problems with shuddering, stalling, etc with their Ecoboost products?
That was an issue specific to the F150's 3.5L Ecoboost, I believe, and was caused by excessive condensation in the intake from the charge air cooler (aka the intercooler) being too efficient, particularly in hot, humid environments. This apparently hasn't been an issue since Ford redesigned the intercooler for the 2013 model year, by the way. Most other cases of shuddering or stumbling are related to spark plugs (either worn out or installed with anti-seize compound that screws up the electrical properties under heavy load), and are maintenance issues rather than actual problems.

Like any turbocharged engine, the Ecoboost family is going to require more maintenance, and will in particular have a much shorter spark plug change interval than a normally aspirated engine. People became accustomed to spark plugs lasting in excess of 100,000 miles in the 90s and 00s, which was often longer than people kept cars, and then automakers started making mainstream turbocharged engines that required much more frequent changes. With the sheer number of turbocharged Ecoboost vehicles that Ford sells, there are going to be maintenance issues due to owners possibly not even knowing that their vehicle is turbocharged, or what that even means. Put yourself in the place of the average car buyer, who only knows how to use their car.
 
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