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If the devious plan by Fiat was to eat Chrysler and Dodge and eventually sell Fiats, Alphas, and Jeeps/Rams, then we will see misery in Fiat's USA reality. But they're not alone. Ford is having their fare share of Branding problems and GM is putting up smoke screens here in the USA. Reliability issues are driving both of them into the ground. The youngest generation now entering the market is more cosmopolitan minded and the poetic warm fuzzies of small town , bonded USA is shriveling . I'll let you all know how strong their new force is after this coming Tuesday. Come the end of November, the stock market will likely support this theory. Ouchy.
I hear that! No one wants a Fiat.. I mean NO ONE. Yeah maybe a few. I have seen a couple abarths, 500's and that ugly ass SUVish thing, but you are literally looking at a market that only target's the 40ish year olds and younger. I know that's a big market, but even a lot of them hear nothing but the negative from their elders back when Fiat was scorn out of the US back in the day for selling trash (No surprise guess not much changes over time). Then you have to segment the market from people who want any space whatsoever (probably 85% percent of the market), people who want performance (probably another 5 to 10% at this point), and then you have the teens.. And this is pretty much the bulk of the market this appeals to except for a few women which I always thought it was funny that the Abarth commercials had the hot chick in it and the whole flirt scene when it most probably should have been advertised as a pearly blue color with black accents instead of the black/red color scheme and reverse the roles in the commercials..

Bottom line is Fiat doesn't understand America. They almost literally bought their way back in via the CDJR takeover and clearly they need to understand what they are doing to move forward in a proper way...

The Grand Caravan should be a mainstay in my opinion. I even like them and I hate minivans with a passion. You can fit a new 2.0L turbo in one and it will go just fine. BUT they have to be RELIABLE which is one of the major reasons why it's so popular.
The Durango is nice but needs an update. IMHO they should just update the looks of it, change the engine for emissions to get by the next 5 years and let it be.
The 300s is pretty fly but yeah.. I agree it's a dying car. I want a 300SRT, but only because it's stupid fast and you can get one for cheap.

At this point it wouldn't surprise me if they turned us on our ears and came out with a new CUDA made on a 500 chassis but convertible with a 1.3L *rolls eyes*.
 

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Biggest problem with the 300 is that it looks a little too ​Gangsta .....
I agree but at the same time doesn't that help it sell? The 300 has always been gangsta. Lol!
 

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Mybe... but I don't think so much to the "target" market of better income new car buyers . Although, nah, never mind .... lol
View attachment 115462
Well, the target market for that 300 is like 3 people. There are literally dozens of other people that buy 300s. Honestly, it's a gangster car from a decade ago. No self-respecting gang-banger is going to be caught rolling in one now. These days they're rocking Land Rovers, Mercedes G-Wagons, and Bentleys. I kid you not, there was a gang-related drive-by shooting in Toronto a few months ago and the car used was a white Bentley. Somehow, the Keystone Kops still have no leads. How common are white Bentleys in the Toronto area, and how many people own these and are "known to police"? Also, maybe they should ask teenagers who follow the local hip-hop scene, because my daughter tells me it's pretty common knowledge who did it. There just happens to be a rival rapper from a different gang who had "beef" with the victim and (insert drum roll) he loves to pose for pictures with his white Bentley. But sure, let's go with "no suspects, and no leads, we're stumped".
 

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Well, the target market for that 300 is like 3 people. There are literally dozens of other people that buy 300s. Honestly, it's a gangster car from a decade ago. No self-respecting gang-banger is going to be caught rolling in one now. These days they're rocking Land Rovers, Mercedes G-Wagons, and Bentleys. I kid you not, there was a gang-related drive-by shooting in Toronto a few months ago and the car used was a white Bentley. Somehow, the Keystone Kops still have no leads. How common are white Bentleys in the Toronto area, and how many people own these and are "known to police"? Also, maybe they should ask teenagers who follow the local hip-hop scene, because my daughter tells me it's pretty common knowledge who did it. There just happens to be a rival rapper from a different gang who had "beef" with the victim and (insert drum roll) he loves to pose for pictures with his white Bentley. But sure, let's go with "no suspects, and no leads, we're stumped".
Considering most thugs in my part of the country drive something like this (or much worse), I think it would be an upgrade for them.

mcdonalds-regal.jpg

BTW.. FML.. Even the 300 is getting the hellcat treatment and we couldn't even get an SRT-4...
https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2017/09/report-chrysler-300-hellcat-happening.html
Scratch that, FCA said there was NO plans to hellcat the 300, however they are 'refreshing the body' next year. Let's see if that means a real overhaul of the look, or just changing the front grill and headlights again and only having the option for a turbo 4 or N/A v6..
 

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To think that it costs thousands of dollars to get a custom paint job and jacked-up suspension like that, only to end up with a vehicle that drives like sh*t and looks absolutely ridiculous. I guess it's too much to expect that with their drug money these idiots would do something with it to actually improve their lives.
 

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Considering most thugs in my part of the country drive something like this (or much worse), I think it would be an upgrade for them.

View attachment 115466

BTW.. FML.. Even the 300 is getting the hellcat treatment and we couldn't even get an SRT-4...
https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2017/09/report-chrysler-300-hellcat-happening.html
Scratch that, FCA said there was NO plans to hellcat the 300, however they are 'refreshing the body' next year. Let's see if that means a real overhaul of the look, or just changing the front grill and headlights again and only having the option for a turbo 4 or N/A v6..
FCA has been unclear about their plans for the 300. At one point they suggested that it would be refreshed and a new generation 300 would be introduced for the 2022/23 model year, but some insiders have said that there are no plans to change anything and the current 300 will soldier on until the redesign. The 300 is well past its expiry date. What was once innovative and cool styling now just looks dated and weird. Sales are already poor, and it's going to take a fundamental change to the car's design to make people take notice. However, I expect the 300 to disappear for good before 2022. Automakers are going to come to the conclusion that nobody actually wants them to come out with new sedans. Or not enough people, anyway. Hardly anybody is clamoring for a new 300 design. If you don't think a few years makes a difference, sedans were still kings of the showroom after pickup trucks when I bought my Dart in 2013. There weren't many CUVs cracking the top 10 in sales. Now it's the reverse. It's pickups followed by CUVs, with a few sedans just barely hanging on to the top 10, but not for much longer. I hate it as much as anybody, but I've come to see that this trend will not reverse itself now, and sedans will soon exist only as specialty vehicles in North America.
 

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BTW.. FML.. Even the 300 is getting the hellcat treatment and we couldn't even get an SRT-4...
https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2017/09/report-chrysler-300-hellcat-happening.html
Scratch that, FCA said there was NO plans to hellcat the 300, however they are 'refreshing the body' next year. Let's see if that means a real overhaul of the look, or just changing the front grill and headlights again and only having the option for a turbo 4 or N/A v6..
No it's not, that post is over a year old at this point. That car was just a drive train mule. The 300 is running it's course with the looks it has now till it is finally killed off when the dodge replacement(s) can get moved into the factory
 

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No it's not, that post is over a year old at this point. That car was just a drive train mule. The 300 is running it's course with the looks it has now till it is finally killed off when the dodge replacement(s) can get moved into the factory
and what exactly are the replacements supposed to be? A 300 Crossover and a Dodge Crossover and a small RAM crossover and a Jeep crossover that isn't a rebadged Fiat 500L and a separate subdivision of Chrysler section named Land Cross and a joint effort with Big Bass Pro Shops/Cabellas in advertising and rewards points for Outdoor Gaming here in the US ?
And specially labeled tins of chew-bacco in the parts departments across our great nation.
 

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and what exactly are the replacements supposed to be? A 300 Crossover and a Dodge Crossover and a small RAM crossover and a Jeep crossover that isn't a rebadged Fiat 500L and a separate subdivision of Chrysler section named Land Cross and a joint effort with Big Bass Pro Shops/Cabellas in advertising and rewards points for Outdoor Gaming here in the US ?
And specially labeled tins of chew-bacco in the parts departments across our great nation.
I suppose stranger things have happened...
 

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and what exactly are the replacements supposed to be? A 300 Crossover and a Dodge Crossover and a small RAM crossover and a Jeep crossover that isn't a rebadged Fiat 500L and a separate subdivision of Chrysler section named Land Cross and a joint effort with Big Bass Pro Shops/Cabellas in advertising and rewards points for Outdoor Gaming here in the US ?
And specially labeled tins of chew-bacco in the parts departments across our great nation.
I'm trying to picture a Challenger crossover. Seriously, though, I expect that in a few years FCA North America will mostly be RAM (trucks and commercial vans), Jeep (CUVs with Jeep badges and grills), Chrysler (fancy CUVs and their minivan maybe), and Dodge (CUVs with ridiculous V8s and maybe the Challenger if they can justify allocating assembly line capacity to it). If it isn't already, the entire Jeep lineup will be strictly crossovers with car-style unitized body construction, and their hardcore off-road legacy will be relegated to the past for good. I suppose Fiat will still be around to laugh at because they seem unwilling to kill it off as the embarrassment that it is, Maserati will still be cringing their way through suburbia, and Alfa Romeo will still theoretically be here, though they will hit a new level of exclusivity by actually selling 0 models per year.

Speaking of Maserati, I saw one the other day. It is supposed to look like it was entirely dipped in chrome, but it's wrapped, and the effect is more like it is covered in tin foil. I've seen this car on the road before, and it has some kind of awful aftermarket exhaust that makes an even more unpleasant sound than the factory managed to come up with. It sounds like a large animal drowning in a tar pit. To each their own, I guess.
 

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I'm trying to picture a Challenger crossover. Seriously, though, I expect that in a few years FCA North America will mostly be RAM (trucks and commercial vans), Jeep (CUVs with Jeep badges and grills), Chrysler (fancy CUVs and their minivan maybe), and Dodge (CUVs with ridiculous V8s and maybe the Challenger if they can justify allocating assembly line capacity to it). If it isn't already, the entire Jeep lineup will be strictly crossovers with car-style unitized body construction, and their hardcore off-road legacy will be relegated to the past for good. I suppose Fiat will still be around to laugh at because they seem unwilling to kill it off as the embarrassment that it is, Maserati will still be cringing their way through suburbia, and Alfa Romeo will still theoretically be here, though they will hit a new level of exclusivity by actually selling 0 models per year.


Speaking of Maserati, I saw one the other day. It is supposed to look like it was entirely dipped in chrome, but it's wrapped, and the effect is more like it is covered in tin foil. I've seen this car on the road before, and it has some kind of awful aftermarket exhaust that makes an even more unpleasant sound than the factory managed to come up with. It sounds like a large animal drowning in a tar pit. To each their own, I guess.
:eek: I feel humbled at your elaboration there, good sir !! I feel in some small way that I have contributed to such descriptive flights of automotive reflections here on the Forum. And on occasion, we have living proof of that treasure - reflected in the posts of such glory as presented here . A mission without evidence of ending . The ongoing, though unrewarded, efforts of commentary on our current automotive age .......

bird-weather.jpg
 

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I'm trying to picture a Challenger crossover. Seriously, though, I expect that in a few years FCA North America will mostly be RAM (trucks and commercial vans), Jeep (CUVs with Jeep badges and grills), Chrysler (fancy CUVs and their minivan maybe), and Dodge (CUVs with ridiculous V8s and maybe the Challenger if they can justify allocating assembly line capacity to it). If it isn't already, the entire Jeep lineup will be strictly crossovers with car-style unitized body construction, and their hardcore off-road legacy will be relegated to the past for good. I suppose Fiat will still be around to laugh at because they seem unwilling to kill it off as the embarrassment that it is, Maserati will still be cringing their way through suburbia, and Alfa Romeo will still theoretically be here, though they will hit a new level of exclusivity by actually selling 0 models per year.

Speaking of Maserati, I saw one the other day. It is supposed to look like it was entirely dipped in chrome, but it's wrapped, and the effect is more like it is covered in tin foil. I've seen this car on the road before, and it has some kind of awful aftermarket exhaust that makes an even more unpleasant sound than the factory managed to come up with. It sounds like a large animal drowning in a tar pit. To each their own, I guess.
Maserati has always and still does just look like D-bag vehicles to me. Yeah they are fast.. And they look like the person who should buy it is nothing but the most supreme of d*uche nozzles.. Sorta like Alfa Romeo but a notch above.
 

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It sounds like a large animal drowning in a tar pit. To each their own, I guess.
Not talking about Maserati , but I have noticed a large increase in the number of horrible sounding V8's lately. To me it sounds like the V8 version of a Honda "swarm of bees in a soda can" sound. Just straight up garbage.

I like your description though, rofl.
 

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I’m disappointed that FCA is going away from small cars since that’s the only thing I’m willing to buy. I picked up a used Dart recently but if they don’t make something similar by the time I’m in the market for a new car I’ll probably buy a Subaru WRX or something. Hell, I already wanted the WRX over the Dart but I got the Dart because I found one with the right options for the right price. A similar WRX would’ve been about twice as much money... I can’t really figure out why people think Americans don’t want small cars when all my friends drive small sedans.
 

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I’m disappointed that FCA is going away from small cars since that’s the only thing I’m willing to buy. I picked up a used Dart recently but if they don’t make something similar by the time I’m in the market for a new car I’ll probably buy a Subaru WRX or something. Hell, I already wanted the WRX over the Dart but I got the Dart because I found one with the right options for the right price. A similar WRX would’ve been about twice as much money... I can’t really figure out why people think Americans don’t want small cars when all my friends drive small sedans.
Have you actually looked at sales numbers? Your friends are not representative of the average American vehicle buyer.
 

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Have you actually looked at sales numbers? Your friends are not representative of the average American vehicle buyer.
I know they’re not, but I also know those sales numbers don’t reflect the average American vehicle buyer. They reflect the average American new vehicle buyer. A lot of people aren’t buying new cars because they’re too expensive and manufactures aren’t helping that by killing the small affordable cars and replacing them with larger more expensive models. Young people today don’t have large families, why would they want family cars?
 

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I know they’re not, but I also know those sales numbers don’t reflect the average American vehicle buyer. They reflect the average American new vehicle buyer. A lot of people aren’t buying new cars because they’re too expensive and manufactures aren’t helping that by killing the small affordable cars and replacing them with larger more expensive models. Young people today don’t have large families, why would they want family cars?
Automakers do not care about used car buyers at all. They will sell what new car buyers want. If the small cars were cheap to build they would love to sell them all day long for sub 20k but evey year production cost go higher and higher and that's why small cars are so hard on the wallet for both the makers and buyers
 

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Automakers do not care about used car buyers at all. They will sell what new car buyers want. If the small cars were cheap to build they would love to sell them all day long for sub 20k but evey year production cost go higher and higher and that's why small cars are so hard on the wallet for both the makers and buyers
What makes small cars more expensive to produce than large ones? I’m not saying I don’t believe you but it sounds odd to me. There’s less material needed, and less weight equals less stress on many parts of a vehicle including the engine at a time when emissions standards are increasing every year. So what’s the big expense with small cars? It’s not like they’re cellphones and it requires significant R&D to make them smaller, manufactures obviously already know how to produce small cars.

And I realize manufactures don’t care about used car buyers, but they should. Many used car buyers would become new car buyers when they get old enough to have a stable income- as long as there’s a new car for them to buy. I just think it’s incredibly short sighted to stop making small cars entirely.
 
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