[Capri83RS]

I know this isn't a sports car or performance car, by any stretch of the imagination, but I expected almost 200hp from a small lightweight car to be a bit more responsive than it is. WOT from a dig (no tire spin), it barely out-accelerates grandma with her walker to 60, and I can honestly say I don't feel any difference between 1/2 throttle and wide-open. A nice 1-2 shift at 6k rpm WOT elicited a small bark-bark of the front tires. It made me giggle, because I expected more.

On one hand, I'm happy, because I'll be teaching my oldest daughter to drive with this car and eventually it will become her first car, but on the other hand, I'm saddened. Yea, I have a couple other vehicles that are my play toys, and for a daily commuter car, this is plenty good enough (getting 26mpg mixed highway/city in hilly terrain, and not driving it for the stellar fuel economy results).

Is this just typical of this vehicle, and I should just get used to it?


----------------------------------------------------
2014 Dart GT - True Blue Pearl 6spd manual - fully loaded
2005 RAM 1500 4x4 - 250k miles and still going
1984 Capri RS - 5.0L Coyote Twin Turbo project
1979 Capri RS - built 306 & T5 with a little spray

 

[Bullfrog]

The Dart is a sporty economy car. It is not going to burn tires or set 1/4 records. It will turn heads for style though. Looking at your other cars you have listed im gonig to say that you just have to get used to how the dart handles.

The only thing i can say is that the WOT the car opens to 85 and slowly opens to 100%, someone posted a video of it. That has been a issue many members would like fixed.

 

[youngsmith53]

Is this just typical of this vehicle, and I should just get used to it?

I hate to tell you but, you might need to get used to it. The Dart is not a "light weight car"... Small, yes, light weight, no. The 2014 GT you have clocks in about 3,186 lbs for curb weight, where as the Capri's are more than likely significantly less in weight (couldn't find rock solid numbers to compare). Also, you are comparing the GT to a 5.0 twin turbo project and a built 306 with some NO2, the GT is never going to compare to those two. The other reason you are mentioning the WOT pedal is because the drive by wire and how the TB reacts to the pedal, you aren't going to get a true WOT with the Dart, unless you can eliminate the DBW setup.

The Dart isn't a true sports car, it's a sporty (in apperance) four door commuter, but was un-fairly marketed as a sport car.

 

[jsblanch]

The Dart GT is not a high performance car. It has some improved handling and a slightly lower final drive ratio for slightly improved acceleration compared to other 2.4L Darts, but this car isn't in the same class as a GTI, Civic Si, or Focus ST. It's a good-looking, well-equipped compact family sedan that is better suited to the daily grind of getting to the office than the racetrack. Also, compare it to the competition, and it's not really "slow". Try driving any Corolla or non-Si Civic, and you'll see that the Dart is not so bad.

 

[Capri83RS]

I hate to tell you but, you might need to get used to it. The Dart is not a "light weight car"... Small, yes, light weight, no. The 2014 GT you have clocks in about 3,186 lbs for curb weight, where as the Capri's are more than likely significantly less in weight (couldn't find rock solid numbers to compare). Also, you are comparing the GT to a 5.0 twin turbo project and a built 306 with some NO2, the GT is never going to compare to those two. The other reason you are mentioning the WOT pedal is because the drive by wire and how the TB reacts to the pedal, you aren't going to get a true WOT with the Dart, unless you can eliminate the DBW setup.

The Dart isn't a true sports car, it's a sporty (in apperance) four door commuter, but was un-fairly marketed as a sport car.

1.) I didn't realize the Dart was that heavy. My fox body cars are probably not close to that anymore, due to the severe weight reduction plan I've put them both on. Creature comforts like PW, PDL, Power Steering, Stereo, AC/Heat, sound deadening, thermal insulation .... that stuff isn't needed.
2.) The drive-by-wire should not be a hindrance, my RAM is a drive-by-wire, and I can burn the tires down 1st and 2nd gear. It weighs 5200lbs. I've also had a 2012 Mustang GT (12.59 @ 113.8mph with a tune on street tires) and a 2013 Focus ST (slightly more expensive than the Dart, huge performance increase, not as good of a first car for a beginner teenage driver)
3.) I know the Dart will never compare to my toys (I never expected it to), but I expected it to be a better performer than my wifes 2011 Kia Sorento.

It feels like the 0-60 time is more on the line of two days instead of 8 seconds.

 

[Capri83RS]

... WOT the car opens to 85 and slowly opens to 100%, someone posted a video of it. That has been a issue many members would like fixed.

That is interesting to hear. I have a friend in the tuning business, I wonder if that's something he can address. If he even has the software to read the code on this car.

 

[youngsmith53]

2.) The drive-by-wire should not be a hindrance, my RAM is a drive-by-wire, and I can burn the tires down 1st and 2nd gear. It weighs 5200lbs. I've also had a 2012 Mustang GT (12.59 @ 113.8mph with a tune on street tires) and a 2013 Focus ST (slightly more expensive than the Dart, huge performance increase, not as good of a first car for a beginner teenage driver)

The way the Dart is tuned coupled with the DBW is the hindrance, you are talking about your RAM and that is tuned completely differently than the Dart as well as the GT & the ST. No matter what the Dart (at this time) is 100% tuned for economy in the Dodge lineup for EPA & CAFE reasons.

 

[jsblanch]

1.) I didn't realize the Dart was that heavy. My fox body cars are probably not close to that anymore, due to the severe weight reduction plan I've put them both on. Creature comforts like PW, PDL, Power Steering, Stereo, AC/Heat, sound deadening, thermal insulation .... that stuff isn't needed.
2.) The drive-by-wire should not be a hindrance, my RAM is a drive-by-wire, and I can burn the tires down 1st and 2nd gear. It weighs 5200lbs. I've also had a 2012 Mustang GT (12.59 @ 113.8mph with a tune on street tires) and a 2013 Focus ST (slightly more expensive than the Dart, huge performance increase, not as good of a first car for a beginner teenage driver)
3.) I know the Dart will never compare to my toys (I never expected it to), but I expected it to be a better performer than my wifes 2011 Kia Sorento.

It feels like the 0-60 time is more on the line of two days instead of 8 seconds.

You're comparing your Dart to the wrong kinds of cars, as I mentioned above. Compare it to the base model Focus, the Corolla, the non-Si Civic, the Sentra, and a whole bunch of other compact ECONOMY cars. None of them are fast, they're mostly sold as economical appliance vehicles. As far as power-to-weight ratio goes, the Dart is actually better than most in its class, even it if is kind of heavy.

 

[Killraven]

You are comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a truck with a 320+hp V8, your wifes 250+hp V6, and a Focus ST to a NA I4 with less than 200hp.

It has more than enough get up for 184hp and 3200lbs. My car, I am estimating at low 7's based on previous 7, 8, and 9 second 0-60 cars I have owned in the past. Try shifting earlier than 6k for 1-2 shift. The 2.4 doesn't like to be redlined from a dig.

 

[pkgmsu2000]

nm.....

 

[undfeatable]

That is interesting to hear. I have a friend in the tuning business, I wonder if that's something he can address. If he even has the software to read the code on this car.

The coding on this engine is insanely complex in the way they managed it.

Miss for the drive by wire, young smith (sorry to put you out buddy) is wrong in saying the only way to eliminate the lag is to replace it. Torks tune (currently only available for the 1.4l unfortunately, 2.0 and 2.4l are still said to be in the works) fixes it. He didn't completely get rid of it for the sake of long term reliability, but increased it so WOT gives 90% power immediately and increases to 100% in the next couple seconds. He also remapped the throttle to be much, much more lively. You can see the difference in throttle manipulation in the way my car revs in my video (below). This should be out not to long from now (contact Tork), and I would definitely recommend it.
https://youtu.be/w52kbhuw1Mw

 

[youngsmith53]

The coding on this engine is insanely complex in the way they managed it.

Miss for the drive by wire, young smith (sorry to put you out buddy) is wrong in saying the only way to eliminate the lag is to replace it. Torks tune (currently only available for the 1.4l unfortunately, 2.0 and 2.4l are still said to be in the works) fixes it. He didn't completely get rid of it for the sake of long term reliability, but increased it so WOT gives 90% power immediately and increases to 100% in the next couple seconds. He also remapped the throttle to be much, much more lively. You can see the difference in throttle manipulation in the way my car revs in my video (below). This should be out not to long from now (contact Tork), and I would definitely recommend it.
https://youtu.be/w52kbhuw1Mw

you must have mis-understood what I was saying, I was not saying replace the TB (that will not fix the DBW), I was stating to replace the DBW setup (ie: w/ a tune):

The other reason you are mentioning the WOT pedal is because the drive by wire and how the TB reacts to the pedal, you aren't going to get a true WOT with the Dart, unless you can eliminate the DBW setup..

The quote above was about a complete stock OEM off the lot Dart.... Yes, a tune will eliminate the DBW setup and fix the DBW issues... So, I am not sure how or why you are "putting me out" when I said nothing of the sort?

 

[Capri83RS]

You are comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare a truck with a 320+hp V8, your wifes 250+hp V6, and a Focus ST to a NA I4 with less than 200hp.

It has more than enough get up for 184hp and 3200lbs. My car, I am estimating at low 7's based on previous 7, 8, and 9 second 0-60 cars I have owned in the past. Try shifting earlier than 6k for 1-2 shift. The 2.4 doesn't like to be redlined from a dig.

Check your information, Kia Sorento is equipped with a 4-cyl or a 6-cyl. My wifes has the 175hp 4-cyl and it weighs considerably more than the Dart. I'm not comparing the PERFORMANCE of my other vehicles, that was a direct response to the person that said the drive-by-wire was the issue with the Dart. The RAM is not tuned for performance, it's a 2005 with drive-by-wire and has zero of the issues (as noted above) that seem to be exhibited by the Dart. That was the comparison that was being made. I'm not comparing the Dart in and of itself, to any of my other vehicles.

What I posted about, was that it doesn't feel like an almost-200hp car. According to my ass-ometer, there's no change in acceleration from 1/2 throttle to WOT starting around 3k rpm or so.

Simple question: Is this to be expected?

I'm ok with it, if that's what it's supposed to be, it just seems odd.

EDIT: Sorry, available engines for the 2011 Kia Sorento below:

Available Engines:
276-hp, 3.5-liter V-6 (regular gas)
175-hp, 2.4-liter I-4 (regular gas)

 

[Bullfrog]

The coding on this engine is insanely complex in the way they managed it.

Truth

Miss for the drive by wire, young smith (sorry to put you out buddy) is wrong in saying the only way to eliminate the lag is to replace it.

As of today 8/6/15 there is no way to fix it on the 2.0-2.4 engine platform unless you remove the DBW

Torks tune (currently only available for the 1.4l unfortunately, 2.0 and 2.4l are still said to be in the works) fixes it. He didn't completely get rid of it for the sake of long term reliability, but increased it so WOT gives 90% power immediately and increases to 100% in the next couple seconds. He also remapped the throttle to be much, much more lively. You can see the difference in throttle manipulation in the way my car revs in my video (below).

still doesn't help 2.0/2.4

This should be out not to long from now (contact Tork), and I would definitely recommend it.
https://youtu.be/w52kbhuw1Mw

Until it hits the streets its all rainbows and unicorns. We have yet to have anyone come out with anything for the 2.0/2.4 People say its close and there are teasers and such. Market will dictate the price when/if anything becomes available. comparing a 1.4 to a 2.4 is as bad as comparing a dart to his truck.

The problem for any tune for any car is time invested vs cost. The time invested to crack the ECU and test it and market it is going to be a price point so high that the average Joe isn't going to do it. So i guess the correct statement should be, no one has fixed the throttle lag economically and afforably.

 

[youngsmith53]

The RAM is not tuned for performance, it's a 2005 with drive-by-wire and has zero of the issues (as noted above) that seem to be exhibited by the Dart. That was the comparison that was being made. I'm not comparing the Dart in and of itself, to any of my other vehicles.

I never said the Ram was tuned for perofrmance, the way it is tuned stock is completely different than the Dart... hence the difference in the "ass-ometer"

Simple question: Is this to be expected?

I'm ok with it, if that's what it's supposed to be, it just seems odd.

Simple answer is... yes, it is what is to be expected.

 

[Cntrollerfanboy]

WOT from a dig (no tire spin), it barely out-accelerates grandma with her walker to 60, and I can honestly say I don't feel any difference between 1/2 throttle and wide-open. A nice 1-2 shift at 6k rpm WOT elicited a small bark-bark of the front tires. It made me giggle, because I expected more.

Are you saying from a launch you got no wheel spin from your car??? This makes me giggle because I roast the the tires all the way into second gear. If i don't launch and punch it from first, i get a mean wheel chirp into second gear. I ran my car on the track and they say you hook up better on the track. But it being my first time, and me on street tires, I didn't just spin in first, but in second, and half way into third before I finally got traction.

So maybe you're saying you tried to launch without spinning the tires for a better launch? Because even when my car was stock if you WOT from first, you're not going to use first gear. I just sit there while i spin in place. lol Not good for acceleration but sure enough VERY FUN

 

[jsblanch]

Are you saying from a launch you got no wheel spin from your car??? This makes me giggle because I roast the the tires all the way into second gear. If i don't launch and punch it from first, i get a mean wheel chirp into second gear. I ran my car on the track and they say you hook up better on the track. But it being my first time, and me on street tires, I didn't just spin in first, but in second, and half way into third before I finally got traction.

So maybe you're saying you tried to launch without spinning the tires for a better launch? Because even when my car was stock if you WOT from first, you're not going to use first gear. I just sit there while i spin in place. lol Not good for acceleration but sure enough VERY FUN

Could you do that when your car was stock?

 

[jrmrbcax]

I floor my car from a stop and don't spin the tires (2.4L Auto)

 

[Killraven]

I floor my car from a stop and don't spin the tires (2.4L Auto)

Probably because you are lower on power with that humid Florida air and you don't have the advantage of the GT's final drive ratio. I have an auto and if the tires aren't warm it will spin to 5k rpms and continue to spin until 2nd gear is hit.

 

[undfeatable]

you must have mis-understood what I was saying, I was not saying replace the TB (that will not fix the DBW), I was stating to replace the DBW setup (ie: w/ a tune):



The quote above was about a complete stock OEM off the lot Dart.... Yes, a tune will eliminate the DBW setup and fix the DBW issues... So, I am not sure how or why you are "putting me out" when I said nothing of the sort?

Ah, yes, mis-understood. I was under the impression you were suggesting to "eliminate" the DBW setup and replace it with a cable system for direct control. By eliminate, you were saying to remove the current DBW settings and have them redone. Gotcha