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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2012 multiair 1.4L non-turbo 95K

Boss,

I've hit a dead end troubleshooting EGR monitor stubbornly not completing it's drive cycle on a 2012 1.4L multiair 95K. There are no fault codes - took it to dealer was told to keep driving until drive cycle completes. It has been 15K since, and EGR is still failing to complete.

I am trying to understand why this is, and not pay through the nose to a technician at a dealer who doesn't know how to troubleshoot a system without first having a fault code to tell him the way. This car has no fault codes and drives great.

Car has 95K, I've had it for 50K. I've changed all the obvious to me things - all maintenance: plugs and new NGK boots for coils, both O2 sensors NGK @ 85K, tranny fluid 85K, oil has been changed every 5K with 0w-40 Mann cartridge every time (recommended is 5w-30, but 0w-40 is a great oil) . Car runs well, no problems. Sometimes at cold stary first thing in the morning it has a super tiny vibration barely noticeable. Otherwise runs well, it's my daily driver. This EGR has persisted not completing, since last year .
Last weekend, I removed the crankshaft sensor and cleaned it, and camshaft sensor and also cleaned it.

At this point, this week I am throwing more parts at it - stupidly, without anything telling me they are malfunctioning: oil actuator filter/screen because possibly since the EGR is internally valve controlled, maybe the screen is clogged and affecting hydraulic pressure and functioning of the brick somehow; also I'll be changing camshaft sensor located on the vacuum pump, because camshaft controls the solenoids in the multiair brick, which perhaps control the internal EGR. At least I'm assuming the solenoids are taking input from camshaft sensor through PCM (I friggin cleaned the sensor last weekend as I mentioned). I will also change the oil back to 5w-30 at the off chance viscosity has hydraulicly something to do with this - although I don't know how it would, but I have read some posts that the multiair is sensitive to viscosity - BUT THAT sensitive? Is it possible? I'm assuming 0w-40 is fine given that the turbo version recommends 5w-40, so that's what I've always used.

I dunno, I'm at wits end. And I see you are super experienced. If you could point me in the right direction. Give me a hint. Boss, a nod.
Sorry to bother you with my problem.

I keep doing my best and failing,

Respectfully.

-MellowMaximo
 

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Not sure what you mean by EGR drive cycle. The Dart does not have EGR. Who told you it's EGR? All 1.4L Darts have a turbo. Is this a Fiat 1.4 non turbo?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes it is a Fiat. No help at the fiat forum.

MULTIPLE Scan tools indicate EGR drive cycle not completing. Took it to the the dealer, expecting a solution, was told EGR and Evap not completing, keep drivong and come back.

1.4L has egr but it is managed internally by the exhaust valve timing? At least that's what I read. I can source it if you like.
 

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EGR is Exhaust Gas Recirculation. From what I know about EGR, exhaust gas can build up enough carbon to the point that a tube can literally close up. Then the PCM does not sense that EGR is happening. Best place to look is where the EGR tube meets the intake manifold. You may need to remove the throttle body to see the blockage. Another possibility is that the EGR valve pintel is not moving. If you have a MityVac or vacuum source, apply vacuum and watch if the pintel moves.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
There is an EGR tube on this engine? I thought it is managed internally just like the 1.4L turbo on a dart, same engine without the boost, right? But look, I will take the TB off today and clean it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
On the multiair 1.4L there is no EGR valve to have a pintel be stuck. The exhaust valves INSIDE the engine manage EGR.
 

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I have no experience with a Fiat EGR so there may be some differences. I do see that there are some YouTube videos about cleaning a Fiat EGR. On the Dart, the MultiAir only controls the intake valves. Exhaust valves are controlled only by the exhaust lobes on the cam. Can you post some pics or links?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Fiat diesels have an egr valve that can be cleaned. My engine has the same EGR design exactly that the dodge dart has minus the turbo.

When you hook a scanner up to a dodge dart there is no drive cycle for EGR?!! Are you sure?
 

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There are no possible DTCs for EGR on a Dart 1.4L. What besides your scanner is telling you that you have a problem? What are your symptoms? Perhaps a different scanner can help?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I have tried three different scanners, all say the same thing EGR not complete. The dealer told me his scanner is showing EGR not complete and when I challenged him saying this engine does not have EGR, he said it still needs to complete the drive cycle.

That's why I'm changing the camshaft sensor, because EGR is managed by the camshaft. I can't think of anything else helping manage internal EGR than that sensor.

There is definitely no EGR "valve" to clean on my engine or the dodge dart.
 

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Besides what the scanner says, are there any symptoms as far as drivability? Are you failing an emissions test? Is there a message or a light on the cluster?

On a non turbo engine an EGR system channels exhaust gas into the intake as part of emissions control at certain times and rpms. If you really have EGR, there should be a valve or solenoid because this cannot happen all the time or the engine would stall out. If the non turbo MultiAir somehow sends exhaust gas back through the intake, the cam sensor has nothing to do with it. The cam sensor only tells the PCM that the cam is turning in sync with the crankshaft so that your pistons are not banging into your valves and bending them.

Please find a link on the internet that explains how your 1.4 non turbo engine controls EGR so we could both understand what is happening.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
The money light is not on, no MIL codes. Car drives great no symptoms of problems. I drive it every day. But because the EGR monitor is not completing I can't get emissions sticker. I am being told to keep driving the car to complete the drive cycle for EGR. I am baffled why there is an EGR drive cycle monitor on this vehicle, except that multiple scanners are reportong it and the dealer told me it's showing as not complete as well. Could be that the dealer technician is just as incompetent as I am.

EGR on the multiair 1.4 L Fiat 500 non turbo is managed/handled exactly THE SAME AS on the Dodge Dart multiair 1.4L turbo. I don't know what else I can say. Please believe me.

Exhaust gases are not piped back to the intake and there is no egr valve to unstick or tube to clean - I swear, or it would be easy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
This is what I found regaeding how Fiat 500 Multiair Non-turbo handles EGR :

"For instance, Bernard says an engine with MultiAir could do without a conventional exhaust-gas recirculation valve. That function could be handled entirely by a secondary lobe on the intake cam profile, allowing the opening of the intake valves during the exhaust stroke.


This would allow part of the exhaust gas to be stored in the intake ducts, then sucked into the cylinder in the following intake stroke.


It’s difficult to imagine so much happening – and so many changes occurring – in the span of milliseconds. To the driver, the underhood machinations are nearly imperceptible."

How Fiat 500 Multiair 1.4L Non turbo handles EGR.
 

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There are no secondary lobes on the Dart 1.4L camshaft, only 1 intake and 2 exhaust lobes. The intake lobe mainly pumps oil and the MultiAir solenoids and hydraulic pressure from the oil move the intake valves. If yours has secondary intake lobes for EGR, then the PCM controls it with MultiAir. The PCM controls MultiAir exclusively. You should pursue this with a Fiat dealer to see if there is a PCM update or a PCM defect. As much as I personally hate running to a dealer for anything, this is not a do it yourself problem.

From the FSM:
09 - Engine, 1.4L I4 16V Turbo / Cylinder Head / CAMSHAFT, Engine / Description

DESCRIPTION
Rectangle Auto part Art Font Fashion accessory

The 1.4L engine uses a Single Over Head Camshaft (SOHC) to provide valve actuation but the camshaft is in the standard position of an exhaust camshaft in a Double Over Head Camshaft (DOHC) engine. The camshaft has five bearing journal surfaces and three cam lobes per cylinder. The camshaft is built up on a hollow tube with cam lobes, bearing journals and end caps pressed into position. The front end cap includes the camshaft sprocket mounting and front bearing journal with end play thrust walls. The rear end cap is the camshaft position sensor pick-up wheel and also drives the vacuum pump.

09 - Engine, 1.4L I4 16V Turbo / Cylinder Head / CAMSHAFT, Engine / Operation

OPERATION

The camshaft is driven by the crankshaft via drive sprockets and belt. As the crankshaft turns, the timing belt turns the camshaft. The camshaft has precisely machined lobes to provide accurate valve timing and duration.

The exhaust camshaft lobes are located directly over the exhaust valves and are actuated through bucket style hydraulic lash adjusters. The third lobe on the camshaft functions as an intake lobe. This lobe drives a roller follower rocker arm mounted to the variable valve actuator assembly. The rocker arm drives a pumping element within the variable valve actuator that creates oil pressure needed to open the intake valves.

The camshaft is supported by five bearing journals. The front and rear bearing journal caps are located to the camshaft housing with dowel pins. Camshaft end play is controlled by two thrust walls that border the nose piece journal. Camshaft bearing lubrication is provided via a oil supply passage through the camshaft bearing housing and from an orifice in the rocker arm ball socket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I need to hook this car up to a proper bidirectional autel scan tool because there's some silly nonsense afoot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This is such a major downer for me. I've never experienced a car problem where drive cycles are not completing and the PCM is not giving a clue or direction in which to start troubleshooting.
 

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Murphy's general laws
  • Nothing is as easy as it looks.
  • Everything takes longer than you think.
  • Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
  • If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong. ...
  • If anything simply cannot go wrong, it will anyway.
You have a problem no one else has reported. Hope you figure it out.

Just remembered this from a long time ago. try it, nothing to lose.
 

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I have money on a bad ecm. Mine did the same thing and evap emissions would not clear or go ready. If it's throwing an egr code and does not have egr control circuitry external to the multi air overlapping the valves, something in the brain is bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
There are no fault codes. EGR monitor not ready. EVAP monitor not ready.

I think I have to throw all effort into the evap system and make sure I pass emissions. Then I can work on understanding the EGR issue.

Of course EVAP is a giant pain in the a77 without a smoke machine. So annoying.
 

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If you read the above link I posted about the Chrysler Drive Cycle, it takes certain parameters to complete. If you are doing only short drives at low speeds, that could be the problem.
You would have EVAP codes if the system was not functioning correctly. If you have no codes indicating a leak, you don't need a smoke machine.
 
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