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AWD sucks up your power like no tomorrow. It is the reason why stock WRX's are only fast off the line.
I agree with you that AWD has a lot of power loss but completely disagree that stock WRX's are only fast off the line. I will start by saying that Subaru's symmetrical awd is far superior to any other awd drive system I have experienced. My 2015 WRX has 268 bhp and only about 230-240 make it to the wheels from early dyno tests, which isn't bad at all. And 0-100 in about 14 secs is pretty impressive for a $27k car and is hardly slow by any stretch of the imagination. It's only about 1/2 to 1 second slower than a 5.0 Mustang GT in the 1/4 mile. But you don't buy a WRX to go fast in a straight line, you feel it's true speed when you start turning the wheel. 30 - 40 mph turns in my M'13 are closer to 50-60 in the WRX. It is unbelievably good in the corners. If anything I think the WRX proves you can make a fantanstic AWD 4cyc turbo for a great price. I hope that Dodge tries to follow the mold set by cars like the WRX / STi / Evo. I truly hope that they don't model SRT4 to be an AWD drag car. I feel they may need to try to compete more with the STi than the WRX because I don't think they can afford to price it where the WRX is currently at just under $27k with where there current Dart prices are. Besides they can fill the gap that the Evo will leave when it is disco'd. Just my 2 cents.
 

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I agree with you that AWD has a lot of power loss but completely disagree that stock WRX's are only fast off the line. I will start by saying that Subaru's symmetrical awd is far superior to any other awd drive system I have experienced. My 2015 WRX has 268 bhp and only about 230-240 make it to the wheels from early dyno tests, which isn't bad at all. And 0-100 in about 14 secs is pretty impressive for a $27k car and is hardly slow by any stretch of the imagination. It's only about 1/2 to 1 second slower than a 5.0 Mustang GT in the 1/4 mile. But you don't buy a WRX to go fast in a straight line, you feel it's true speed when you start turning the wheel. 30 - 40 mph turns in my M'13 are closer to 50-60 in the WRX. It is unbelievably good in the corners. If anything I think the WRX proves you can make a fantanstic AWD 4cyc turbo for a great price. I hope that Dodge tries to follow the mold set by cars like the WRX / STi / Evo. I truly hope that they don't model SRT4 to be an AWD drag car. I feel they may need to try to compete more with the STi than the WRX because I don't think they can afford to price it where the WRX is currently at just under $27k with where there current Dart prices are. Besides they can fill the gap that the Evo will leave when it is disco'd. Just my 2 cents.
If the WRX makes 230-240 to the wheels, then the bhp is HIGHLY underrated by Subaru. My Subaru had 13 more hp than my Dart, and was the low-drivetrain loss manual (Dart has the auto), but compared to my Dart it was an absolute dog! Why would that be? Its called major AWD drivetrain loss. From a roll the stock WRX's from a few years ago are dogs. Running crappy 91 octane with my 93-100 tuned 2003 Jetta 1.8T (smaller turbo and 26% smaller displacement than WRX), I am still slightly faster from a roll than a brand new stock WRX. Why? You betcha! :p

AWD does shine in the 1/4 mile. Read my original post to see why. Hint: Fast off the line with all tires hooking up during a 6,000 RPM drop.

Like I said before, the MINIMUM the AWD Dart SRT will need to be considered quick is 300 bhp...........
 

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If the WRX makes 230-240 to the wheels, then the bhp is HIGHLY underrated by Subaru. My Subaru had 13 more hp than my Dart, and was the low-drivetrain loss manual (Dart has the auto), but compared to my Dart it was an absolute dog! Why would that be? Its called major AWD drivetrain loss. From a roll the stock WRX's from a few years ago are dogs. Running crappy 91 octane with my 93-100 tuned 2003 Jetta 1.8T (smaller turbo and 26% smaller displacement than WRX), I am still slightly faster from a roll than a brand new stock WRX. Why? You betcha! :p

AWD does shine in the 1/4 mile. Read my original post to see why. Hint: Fast off the line with all tires hooking up during a 6,000 RPM drop.

Like I said before, the MINIMUM the AWD Dart SRT will need to be considered quick is 300 bhp...........
The new WRX's 2.0T makes power quick, partly thanks to the new small twin scroll turbo. It is instant throttle response above 2000 rpm and virtually no turbo lag below as well. I'm not a highway racer but I can attest to it pulling very hard from 60 or 70 on the highway if I get my foot into it for a few seconds. I'm by no means a mechanic or extremely knowledgeable about cars, but I know the WRX isn't slow, it absolutely embarrasses my M'13. Which consequently is why it is for sale. But I do agree with you that the new SRT4 needs to have 300+ bhp to compete.
 

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My Dart stock SXT 1.4T would embarrass your M13 (according to the M13 owners), but we are talking about sports cars here. I have worn 28 tires off my modded VW 1.8T in 178,XXX miles, so it is a good comparison to the 2014 WRX. Just so happens the new WRX is slightly slower from a roll than my VW because of the major drivetrain loss. A Dart 1.4T with the Tork 1.5 tune will destroy a stock WRX from a few years ago, and I think from a roll it would be a drivers race between a Tork 1.5 Dart and a stock 2014 WRX. Obviously it is cheating to compare a stock car with a modded one, but seeing the loser pounding on his steering wheel still feels just as good. hahaha

Modded WRX's are a different matter, but if I had a dollar for every WRX owner who has told me that WRX's have "glass transmissions"................I would have been able to pay cash for my very own WRX. :p
 

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My Dart stock SXT 1.4T would embarrass your M13 (according to the M13 owners), but we are talking about sports cars here. I have worn 28 tires off my modded VW 1.8T in 178,XXX miles, so it is a good comparison to the 2014 WRX. Just so happens the new WRX is slightly slower from a roll than my VW because of the major drivetrain loss. A Dart 1.4T with the Tork 1.5 tune will destroy a stock WRX from a few years ago, and I think from a roll it would be a drivers race between a Tork 1.5 Dart and a stock 2014 WRX. Obviously it is cheating to compare a stock car with a modded one, but seeing the loser pounding on his steering wheel still feels just as good. hahaha

Modded WRX's are a different matter, but if I had a dollar for every WRX owner who has told me that WRX's have "glass transmissions"................I would have been able to pay cash for my very own WRX. :p
LOL I agree with you on everything stated above. I will point out though that I am comparing my M'13, which is terribly slow(even by dart standards), to my 2015 WRX, not the 2014 WRX. The new WRX has a completely different powertrain including a new 2.0T motor and a brand new 6-speed transmission, not to mention all the chasis and suspension work. The "glass" 5 mt has been disco'd from the WRX. Also I have a feeling that many of the people who told you how terrible their "glass" 5 mt was had modded their WRX. I am talking completely stock.

And again I am not arguing that the Dart is a bad car. My Dart did exactly what I wanted it to do, it was an inexpensive way to get good MPGs and still be fun to drive. I just found a car that still gets me close to the same MPGs (28 combined M'13 vs 27 combined 15 WRX) and is way more fun to drive. I'm just saying that I hope the DSRT4 really steps it up, the 2015 WRX is a good benchmark to shoot for/past.
 

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im not sure how they would have to change the bottom of the darts belly to fit the AWD in. rwd wold never happen, they have plenty of RWD sports cars. FWD and AWD would need the SRT badge more. id still rather see a stripper SRT with FWD more then a AWD unit. 3700 is kinda ridiculous for a small car to weigh in at. search you're feelings, you know it to be true.
 

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im not sure how they would have to change the bottom of the darts belly to fit the AWD in. rwd wold never happen, they have plenty of RWD sports cars. FWD and AWD would need the SRT badge more. id still rather see a stripper SRT with FWD more then a AWD unit. 3700 is kinda ridiculous for a small car to weigh in at. search you're feelings, you know it to be true.
They would have to add a torque converter make room for a drive shift a d a rear end then instead of running the exhaust up the middle it would have to be ran differently. All these guys arguing awd sucks yea sure it sucks if you don't have a turbo or a big motor to push it along. How ever you also arguing roll races because you're rwd/awd can't compete from a dig like a drag race was Ment to be... Awd cars loose a little on top end but when are you going 180mph? Almost never it's suitable for all weather conditions the damn controllability is unmatched and if you want you can convert it to rwd why because it's awd all you're doing is pulling out the cv shafts in the front or a cap in so they free spin I've seen tons of awd cars get converted to rwd for drag and drift reasons
 

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LOL I agree with you on everything stated above. I will point out though that I am comparing my M'13, which is terribly slow(even by dart standards), to my 2015 WRX, not the 2014 WRX. The new WRX has a completely different powertrain including a new 2.0T motor and a brand new 6-speed transmission, not to mention all the chasis and suspension work. The "glass" 5 mt has been disco'd from the WRX. Also I have a feeling that many of the people who told you how terrible their "glass" 5 mt was had modded their WRX. I am talking completely stock.

And again I am not arguing that the Dart is a bad car. My Dart did exactly what I wanted it to do, it was an inexpensive way to get good MPGs and still be fun to drive. I just found a car that still gets me close to the same MPGs (28 combined M'13 vs 27 combined 15 WRX) and is way more fun to drive. I'm just saying that I hope the DSRT4 really steps it up, the 2015 WRX is a good benchmark to shoot for/past.
So you have the 2015 sedan? Nice! I really am not knocking the WRX, (although there is that VW 1.8T/WRX rivalry thing. :) ), just that it had the do everything-giant killer rep long before it deserved it, imo. If the 2015 holds up, then the WRX name can have some serious respect. Starting at $26,200 the new one seems like a killer deal (minus the 21 city/28 hwy numbers).
 

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AWD sucks up your power like no tomorrow. It is the reason why stock WRX's are only fast off the line.
You think the 07 non-turbo's suck, you should try the new base engine. To get better gas mileage they used an engine that would be considered anemic even in a FWD car, and they went and put it on a heavy AWD car. Its a 148 hp 2.0L by the way. The '13 I drove was a gutless wonder with the only thing in the compact segment that was slower being the 115 hp 2.0L Jetta. This was the big thing that kept me away besides the clunky feeling 5 speed trans.
 

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They would have to add a torque converter make room for a drive shift a d a rear end then instead of running the exhaust up the middle it would have to be ran differently. All these guys arguing awd sucks yea sure it sucks if you don't have a turbo or a big motor to push it along. How ever you also arguing roll races because you're rwd/awd can't compete from a dig like a drag race was Ment to be... Awd cars loose a little on top end but when are you going 180mph? Almost never it's suitable for all weather conditions the damn controllability is unmatched and if you want you can convert it to rwd why because it's awd all you're doing is pulling out the cv shafts in the front or a cap in so they free spin I've seen tons of awd cars get converted to rwd for drag and drift reasons
so basically thye would have to REDESIGN the chassis for this. because the bottom of the dart is not set up for AWD. it may have to be a completly differnt chassis. the SRT will be so expencive only older ppl will have money for it. just leave it FWD.
 

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You think the 07 non-turbo's suck, you should try the new base engine. To get better gas mileage they used an engine that would be considered anemic even in a FWD car, and they went and put it on a heavy AWD car. Its a 148 hp 2.0L by the way. The '13 I drove was a gutless wonder with the only thing in the compact segment that was slower being the 115 hp 2.0L Jetta. This was the big thing that kept me away besides the clunky feeling 5 speed trans.
Are you serious? I could see the average person being okay with the power of an 07 N/A Subie, as long as they were not in the mountains. But even the average driver is not going to want to drive it with 25 less hp! Subaru better figure out how to make a cheap, non-AWD gas guzzler real quick, unless they just want to sell performance cars.
 

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so basically thye would have to REDESIGN the chassis for this. because the bottom of the dart is not set up for AWD. it may have to be a completly differnt chassis. the SRT will be so expencive only older ppl will have money for it. just leave it FWD.
Hey, watch it! You're talkin' about my generation now.........


You kids don't get cars and motorcycles anyway. They were not just made to get from Point A-B. :p
 

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Hey, watch it! You're talkin' about my generation now.........


You kids don't get cars and motorcycles anyway. They were not just made to get from Point A-B. :p
no, i get cars, ask my mom. she will tell you that modding is not worth it, blah, blah blah.

your generation? you didnt have cars back then. i saw the Flintstones, you know you had dinosaurs to ride back then.
 

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so basically thye would have to REDESIGN the chassis for this. because the bottom of the dart is not set up for AWD. it may have to be a completly differnt chassis. the SRT will be so expencive only older ppl will have money for it. just leave it FWD.
No it wouldn't you have no idea what you're talking about... The car will most likely. Cost between 23-30grand 30 being a fully loaded model. It's going to have to compete with wrx and evo no one's going to spend what they cost on a new awd turbo car... they already have a chassis for awd on the new 200 which is based on a dart if it is closer to 30 grand it'll be good because snot nosed kids won't be wrapping them around poles like they did with the srt4 neon which is why they discontinued them in the first place. You can't put that much hp on a fwd car anything over 200 is dumb
 

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No it wouldn't you have no idea what you're talking about... The car will most likely. Cost between 23-30grand 30 being a fully loaded model. It's going to have to compete with wrx and evo no one's going to spend what they cost on a new awd turbo car... they already have a chassis for awd on the new 200 which is based on a dart if it is closer to 30 grand it'll be good because snot nosed kids won't be wrapping them around poles like they did with the srt4 neon which is why they discontinued them in the first place. You can't put that much hp on a fwd car anything over 200 is dumb
They didnt discontinue the nsrt4 bc ppl were crashing them. 05 was the end of the neon period....Good point about the awd 200 though. It would make sense for dodge to borrow that setup for the dsrt. Now lets see if they can save some weight (bring on the acr model!).
 

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You think the 07 non-turbo's suck, you should try the new base engine. To get better gas mileage they used an engine that would be considered anemic even in a FWD car, and they went and put it on a heavy AWD car. Its a 148 hp 2.0L by the way. The '13 I drove was a gutless wonder with the only thing in the compact segment that was slower being the 115 hp 2.0L Jetta. This was the big thing that kept me away besides the clunky feeling 5 speed trans.
You must be talking about the Impreza and not the WRX. I will add that you call the Impreza a "heavy AWD car" and yet it weighs 2944 lbs whereas the FWD Dart weighs 3186 lbs. Don't get me wrong the Dart is more "sporty" driving but the Impreza would be a better choice for someone who lived in a snowy climate. Also it's rated at 36/27 mpg which is pretty impressive when you add in the AWD. Not saying it's better than a Dart, just stating facts. But this thread is about the SRT-4 and comparing the new SRT-4 to a base level economy car is hardly fair. A comparison to the WRX is much more reasonable.
 

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Are you serious? I could see the average person being okay with the power of an 07 N/A Subie, as long as they were not in the mountains. But even the average driver is not going to want to drive it with 25 less hp! Subaru better figure out how to make a cheap, non-AWD gas guzzler real quick, unless they just want to sell performance cars.
I think Subaru is perfectly happy selling only AWD cars (except BRZ). They are known for their AWD and their sales have never been higher. I doubt they would switch to a non-AWD powertrain for higher MPGs when the Impreza gets 36/27 mpg with AWD. The market is already saturated with with high mpg FWD economy cars.
 

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You must be talking about the Impreza and not the WRX. I will add that you call the Impreza a "heavy AWD car" and yet it weighs 2944 lbs whereas the FWD Dart weighs 3186 lbs. Don't get me wrong the Dart is more "sporty" driving but the Impreza would be a better choice for someone who lived in a snowy climate. Also it's rated at 36/27 mpg which is pretty impressive when you add in the AWD. Not saying it's better than a Dart, just stating facts. But this thread is about the SRT-4 and comparing the new SRT-4 to a base level economy car is hardly fair. A comparison to the WRX is much more reasonable.
Yes I was talking about the base Impreza and I was commenting only on Pretty Boy Floyd's post about the 07 Impreza feeling somewhat slow. But you are right that the "heavy AWD" car comment that I made was incorrect. I didn't know the Impreza was lighter than the Dart. The one I drove sure felt and moved like it was heavier than my Dart.

Subaru definitely has the market share on AWD cars and their reliability record is one of the highest so naturally people tend to pay the little extra for one. I was ready to pay a bit extra for the convenience of AWD in the winter and amazing reliability record until I drove one. When I drove it, I had no clue it had a smaller engine than the 07, which I have been in as one of my co-workers owns one and loves it, hence why I tried a new one. I was greatly surprised when it had no guts at all and a transmission that felt like it was 30 years old. Subaru seems to be a bit of an oddity. Its got a following because of the fact that they sell one of the very few sophisticated AWD cars out there. As far as I can tell, thats the only reason they sell well because the Impreza really isn't all that great besides this.
 
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