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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Motor would ramp up, slowly wind down, up a little etc, then off completely. Replaced blower motor, replaced blower motor resistor. I already know that alpinegreenneon indicates that the codes are not correct exactly. Time and time again these codes come up for many people. What am I missing?

CODES RECEIVED FROM ALPHAOBD


Reading faults for: HVAC (Heat, Ventilation and Air Conditioner)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Faults found.
U0401
B10E8

Error code: U0401

Implausible Data Received From ECM/PCM
Last test completed positively
Error intermittent

----------------------------------------

Error code: B10E8
Blower Motor Control
Short circuit to ground
Last test completed positively
Error intermittent

----------------------------------------
Reading faults for: Chrysler Tigershark engine
----------------------------------------

Faults found.
B10EA
B10E9

Error code: B10EA

Blower Motor Control Circuit High
Test not complete
Error temporary
Error warning lamp 'ON' requested

----------------------------------------

Error code: B10E9

Blower Motor Control Circuit Low
Test not complete
Error temporary
Error warning lamp 'ON' requested





-ZR
 

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If you replaced the blower motor and the resistor module, the only thing left is the wiring and possibly the switch module.
 

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Tell me more about this switch module. Are you referring to the environmental controls panel in front of the shifter or something else?
Yes, if you have the base HVAC without the touchscreen. Not sure how HVAC blower speed selection works with the touchscreen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Okie dokie then. I've replaced all of these to no avail.

126983


According to alpinegreenneon I am down to the wiring. What about the HVAC Control Module? On my 13 Limited I understand it to be behind the center stack screen.

126984


-ZR
 

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If it's not too expensive, you can try it. Junkyard would be cheapest. It is buried.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If it's not too expensive, you can try it. Junkyard would be cheapest. It is buried.
Sooo, I replaced the HVAC Control Module. That was fun. It did not fix the blower motor but it started the mileage flashing. Perhaps this is one of those proxy align situations and perhaps it will start working once it's registered to the BCM.
 

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If you can get the alfaOBD app, an android device, and the OBDLinkMX+ bluetooth adapter, you can do your own PROXI configuration. It runs itself once you select it with no need for any inputs from you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
If you can get the alfaOBD app, an android device, and the OBDLinkMX+ bluetooth adapter, you can do your own PROXI configuration. It runs itself once you select it with no need for any inputs from you.
Ah! I already have all of these things. I looked all over AlphaOBD yesterday for it, but found it this morning. Fingers crossed that it works. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
UPDATE:

After replacing all of the modules above, including the HVAC module (buried deep) nothing made a difference. I have had the Dart at the dealer three times now and each time it gets more and more bizarre.

1. Requested service/diagnostics. Blower motor wouldn’t operate, CEL on:

B10E9:

Blower Motor Control Circuit Low
Test not complete
Error temporary
Error warning lamp ‘on’ requested

B10EA
Blower Motor Control Circuit High
Test not complete
Error temporary
Error warning lamp ‘on’ requested


Dealer determined that the relay in the engine bay PDC was scorched and defective, and they replaced it along with the blower motor (third time) citing a wobble. He was right. It just didn't wobble when I received it.

I realize now that it was the relay. Stupid

When I got the car back the CEL was still on. The SA thought it best to tell me that I had non-OEM parts in there and that is what is triggering the CEL. No. All of those parts are genuine, stamped with the Chrysler logo. I buy all my parts from CDJR in Deland, Florida.

I ordered another HVAC module just in case. All three modules are completely identical save for some nomenclature, and serialization changes

Dealer Price: Relay, Blower Motor = $200.00 + $700.00 Internet Price: $2.50 + $67.50


2. Back at dealer and I advised that all modules are genuine OEM without question.

They go over it and tell me that my battery is bad. When it is under load especially when starting the car, battery voltage drops down to 10v at the instant the starter demands power. Otherwise it runs stable at 13-14v. He said and that is what is throwing a blower motor code? Not a headlamp warning or some other issue that would throw a CEL. He literally said, “I know it sounds crazy right.” He started quoting me numbers. I stopped him and explained that there was nothing wrong with the battery and that I'd pick it up.

I tested it the battery. Others who have tested it: Advance, AutoZone, National, and a local battery and alternator specialist. Big surprise; nothing wrong with the battery. It was about 5 years old anyway.

Old Battery:
Turn off AC
Clear all error codes
Remove battery

New battery:
Install
Blower codes come back.


3. Car is back at the dealer with new battery and still the same codes.

After a few days of them waiting for a part; the HVAC module. They call and tell me that their tech just replaced the HVAC module and everything works and the CEL is out. He started quoting numbers again. I stopped him.

I replaced that module 2 times. TWO TIMES and now you’re telling me what? That a third module did the trick? Pricing was like $700 for the $67 dollar module and $800 for labor. They said that they had to undo the work of putting it in which they did and put everything back together. When I turned down being fleeced he said to give them an hour to go back in and remove it. They were thinking I was just going to pony up some money. Not

I'm very capable but I’m at wits end. Please help.
 

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When it's not parts, it almost has to be wiring or a connector. Not going to be easily found.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
When it's not parts, it almost has to be wiring or a connector. Not going to be easily found.
That, is discouraging. Why can't the dealer find it? They are the alleged experts. Take the car in and find the problem. They are better equipped and educated in these matters. I told them, I'll pay for the diagnostics just get it done.

In the meantime, I have a permanent check engine light and remote start does not work.

It would be great if you could suppress specific CEL codes.
 

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That, is discouraging. Why can't the dealer find it? They are the alleged experts. Take the car in and find the problem. They are better equipped and educated in these matters. I told them, I'll pay for the diagnostics just get it done.

In the meantime, I have a permanent check engine light and remote start does not work.

It would be great if you could suppress specific CEL codes.
How did this end up so far? Still have the issue, did you ever look into wiring/connectors?

My issue, I start my car, fan starts, 45 seconds later it kicks into the actual speed that it is set too, and then stays at the speed unless I stop for food/gas/etc where I am shutting my car off and then back on...

Have replaced resistor module with no difference other than my 2 lowest settings work now, they did not before.

Sound similar to what you have/had going on?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
How did this end up so far? Still have the issue, did you ever look into wiring/connectors?

My issue, I start my car, fan starts, 45 seconds later it kicks into the actual speed that it is set too, and then stays at the speed unless I stop for food/gas/etc where I am shutting my car off and then back on...

Have replaced resistor module with no difference other than my 2 lowest settings work now, they did not before.

Sound similar to what you have/had going on?
RANT THAT HAS DETAILS:

Of course, I tried my hand at it. This ain't rocket science. It's plug and play modules and connectors all over this car. I ordered a blower motor, blower motor control module, and the HVAC system controller module from Lakeland CDJR in Florida. They have the best prices. I replaced the blower motor, blower module, and the HVAC controller that is hidden behind the A/C controls in the center stack. Grrrrrrr. I have AlfaOBD so the proxy alignment was a snap.

All of these failed so I started with the dealer and they replaced the under hood relay/fuses (which I missed), and blower motor to the tune of $1,100, criminals. But that did get the blower working. When I got back home the check engine light came back on. I took the car back three more times and each time they fed me a boat load of BS. They told me that I did not use OEM parts. I said I most certainly did use OEM because I bought them from Lakeland CDJR. I showed him the boxes and the receipts. He literally said to me, "Yeah, your gonna have to get OEM parts in there." I said, "Hello? Are you really this obtuse. We just discussed this." He replied, "Yeah buddy, get OEM parts in their and that should solve your problem." I do not like this crook.

Took the car home and broke everything down and confirmed that each and every part was OEM. The Dodge symbol is embedded in virtually all OEM parts. I took pictures, put it all back together and went back to the dealer. This time they said it was my BATTERY. Yeah it seems my battery which starts perfectly BTW, is the problem. They stated that when you start the car, the voltage on the battery drops to 10v and THAT is what is triggering the blower motor fault code and triggering a check engine light. "That drop to 10v is what is triggering a blower motor code? Not low oil pressure, or tire pressure, or brake system issues. It has to be the blower motor at exactly this point in time. I looked him in the face and told him I couldn't believe the stuff being slung by this dealer."

Never EVER have I been to a good CDJR dealership. I've tried them in ritzy neighborhoods and regular city neighborhoods from two states and they all sucked. They are all criminals. Now Toyota, there is a fine experience! Wife recently bought a Corolla H/B in that wild blue color you see everywhere. The service they provide is superlative. At any Toyota dealer we have been two, in two different states. My next ride is a Yota.

RANT OFF

So, I got a recommendation to go to a mechanics shop and for a around $450 they worked on it, and the check engine light stayed off for a few days but came back on. Their policy states that if you have to come back for the same issue, there are ZERO labor charges with the exception of parts. These are high end techs who work on Porsche, Maserati, Lambo's etc. They will buy the parts, install them and test. If they don't work they send them back. They replaced everything I replaced and CDJR replaced. None of this worked.

They told me what kind of high end cars that they work on but that "they have NEVER seen anything like this". The owner insists I give him the time to figure it out. It appears that they do not like defeat, especially on this car. They've had the car in their possession for 2+ months now. They check in with me every Friday. LOL I

f they can wrench on a Countach they are more then welcome to work on it as long as they want to free of charge. Luckily I'm retired, I have access to another car so these high end mechanics are MORE than welcome to keep trying their hand at fixing it. Here is what I have learned from them so far.

Anything related to that fan can be easy or truly a nightmare. Check these things...

1. Check and or replace the relays in the under hood power distribution center (PDC) for the blower motor. There is a chart on the inside of the lid.

Maxi Fuse - F07
Maxi Fuse - F83
Relay - T30

I may have missed a relay, look the lid over carefully for other blower motor relays. The T30 and it's socket may look burnt. Just replace all three, however, if it is burnt the contacts may need to be cleaned and that's not easy. Another area of concern is the actual PDC itself. The part that holds all of the relays and fuses, they don't make that anymore. It's to the junk yard you go. They replaced my PDC from a junk yard that actually had less miles on it. That didn't work.

2. I see that you replaced the resistor, awesome, now replace the blower motor itself if you have not done so. Between the blower, blower module, and relays/fuses it may just solve your problem. Don't worry about the HVAC controller at this point. Always disconnect battery before working.

That is all I know at this point. I will come back with an update if and when they figure it out. Good luck!
 

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RANT THAT HAS DETAILS:

Of course, I tried my hand at it. This ain't rocket science. It's plug and play modules and connectors all over this car. I ordered a blower motor, blower motor control module, and the HVAC system controller module from Lakeland CDJR in Florida. They have the best prices. I replaced the blower motor, blower module, and the HVAC controller that is hidden behind the A/C controls in the center stack. Grrrrrrr. I have AlfaOBD so the proxy alignment was a snap.

All of these failed so I started with the dealer and they replaced the under hood relay/fuses (which I missed), and blower motor to the tune of $1,100, criminals. But that did get the blower working. When I got back home the check engine light came back on. I took the car back three more times and each time they fed me a boat load of BS. They told me that I did not use OEM parts. I said I most certainly did use OEM because I bought them from Lakeland CDJR. I showed him the boxes and the receipts. He literally said to me, "Yeah, your gonna have to get OEM parts in there." I said, "Hello? Are you really this obtuse. We just discussed this." He replied, "Yeah buddy, get OEM parts in their and that should solve your problem." I do not like this crook.

Took the car home and broke everything down and confirmed that each and every part was OEM. The Dodge symbol is embedded in virtually all OEM parts. I took pictures, put it all back together and went back to the dealer. This time they said it was my BATTERY. Yeah it seems my battery which starts perfectly BTW, is the problem. They stated that when you start the car, the voltage on the battery drops to 10v and THAT is what is triggering the blower motor fault code and triggering a check engine light. "That drop to 10v is what is triggering a blower motor code? Not low oil pressure, or tire pressure, or brake system issues. It has to be the blower motor at exactly this point in time. I looked him in the face and told him I couldn't believe the stuff being slung by this dealer."

Never EVER have I been to a good CDJR dealership. I've tried them in ritzy neighborhoods and regular city neighborhoods from two states and they all sucked. They are all criminals. Now Toyota, there is a fine experience! Wife recently bought a Corolla H/B in that wild blue color you see everywhere. The service they provide is superlative. At any Toyota dealer we have been two, in two different states. My next ride is a Yota.

RANT OFF

So, I got a recommendation to go to a mechanics shop and for a around $450 they worked on it, and the check engine light stayed off for a few days but came back on. Their policy states that if you have to come back for the same issue, there are ZERO labor charges with the exception of parts. These are high end techs who work on Porsche, Maserati, Lambo's etc. They will buy the parts, install them and test. If they don't work they send them back. They replaced everything I replaced and CDJR replaced. None of this worked.

They told me what kind of high end cars that they work on but that "they have NEVER seen anything like this". The owner insists I give him the time to figure it out. It appears that they do not like defeat, especially on this car. They've had the car in their possession for 2+ months now. They check in with me every Friday. LOL I

f they can wrench on a Countach they are more then welcome to work on it as long as they want to free of charge. Luckily I'm retired, I have access to another car so these high end mechanics are MORE than welcome to keep trying their hand at fixing it. Here is what I have learned from them so far.

Anything related to that fan can be easy or truly a nightmare. Check these things...

1. Check and or replace the relays in the under hood power distribution center (PDC) for the blower motor. There is a chart on the inside of the lid.

Maxi Fuse - F07
Maxi Fuse - F83
Relay - T30

I may have missed a relay, look the lid over carefully for other blower motor relays. The T30 and it's socket may look burnt. Just replace all three, however, if it is burnt the contacts may need to be cleaned and that's not easy. Another area of concern is the actual PDC itself. The part that holds all of the relays and fuses, they don't make that anymore. It's to the junk yard you go. They replaced my PDC from a junk yard that actually had less miles on it. That didn't work.

2. I see that you replaced the resistor, awesome, now replace the blower motor itself if you have not done so. Between the blower, blower module, and relays/fuses it may just solve your problem. Don't worry about the HVAC controller at this point. Always disconnect battery before working.

That is all I know at this point. I will come back with an update if and when they figure it out. Good luck!
Blower motor is on the way, its below zero here so its not fun when it doesn't work and its not fun to work on a car with parking lot only parking hahah but I will prevail!! I think i will change everything that has to do with the blower motor like you suggested. Thanks for the information, I too will come back with an update!


Before I hit reply I also want to throw this out there maybe it means something to someone reading... this issue happens to me after turning my car off for gas/the store quick trips where I am starting my car back up within an hour after an initial start up (8-12 hours of being off). Turn my car on before work after sitting in the cold all night, it is fine. Stop for gas and turn my car off, hit or miss if blower starts up when I turn the car on again
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I’ve had my vehicle in the shop for a little over 4 months to resolve this problem. The shop I took it to specializes in high end cars, Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, etc. They told me that they have never seen anything like this. Ever. And in that time were not able to resolve the mystery of the B10EA, and B10E9 codes.

Holding short of replacing the wiring harness…

They ordered and replaced exact OEM:
  • Blower Motor
  • Blower Motor Controller
  • HVAC Controller
  • HVAC Panel Controls
  • Engine Module
  • Body Module
  • Under Hood PDC (newer one from junk yard for free)
The Under Hood PDC that houses all of the wiring connections, fuses, and relays is no longer manufactured for the Dart. In the end they sent all of the parts back and returned my car to me.

Total Charge: $0.00. They wanted the challenge. I’m retired and have access to other vehicles having made it no big deal.

The tech (in Spanglish which I’m usually great with) told me that there was a device that connects to the OBD-II port, it has seven positions I believe. The positions correlate to different functions of the vehicle and that if I set it to position 5 (for HVAC I think he said) that these errors would not throw the CEL anymore. But you clearly have to have the device, have it connected all the time etc. I have the OBDLink MX Bluetooth adapter and a long-ago paid version of AlfaOBD currently v2.2.8.0.

Is there something I can do with those, or does anyone know what device the tech speaks of?

Thanks guys!
 

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The device he describes is not alfaOBD. It doesn't sound like the dealer Witech either. I have not heard nor read of such a device. Perhaps you should get a name for the device.
Have you considered getting a junkyard PDC and wiring? You mentioned burned contacts. It's obviousely not components, you eliminated that possibility, so it has to be wiring.
 

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It turns out that your codes are considered PCM codes (not HVAC) in the FSM.

28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM), 2.4L / Diagnosis and Testing

B10E9-BLOWER MOTOR CONTROL CIRCUIT LOW

Theory of Operation

To help improve fuel economy and emissions the PCM monitors the HVAC settings for Coolant Temperature Model robustness. The PCM receives HVAC signals in raw data bussed from the HVAC Control Module. These are CAN C signals which indicate the Blower Speed and Driver Side Temperature Door Position. The PCM is required to diagnose these raw signals and set Codes for any failures.

When Monitored and Set Conditions

When Monitored: This diagnostic runs continuously with the ignition on.

Set Conditions:

•The Powertrain Control Module detects that the Blower Motor Control circuit is below a minimum calibrated threshold.

Default Actions:

•The MIL light will illuminate.

Possible Causes

SHORT TO GROUND IN ONE OF THE BLOWER MOTOR CONTROL CIRCUITS
BLOWER MOTOR POWER MODULE
HVAC MODULE

Always perform the PRE-DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURE before proceeding. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) /Standard Procedure).

Diagnostic Test

1.CHECK FOR AN ACTIVE DTC

1. Turn the ignition on.

2. With the scan tool, read DTCs and record on the repair order.

Is the DTC active or pending?

Yes

•Go To 3

No

•Go To 2


2.CHECK BLOWER OPERATION

1. Turn on the HVAC system and operate the blower throughout it’s entire operating range.

2. With the scan tool, read DTCs.

Did this DTC change from Stored to Active while running the blower motor?

Yes

•Go To 3

No

•Perform the INTERMITTENT CONDITION diagnostic procedure. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).


3.CHECK FOR HVAC MODULE DTCS

1. With the scan tool, View HVAC Module DTCs.

Are there any HVAC Module DTCs present?

Yes

•Perform the appropriate HVAC Module DTC diagnostic procedure.
•Perform the HVAC VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/HVAC - Standard Procedure) .

No

•Go To 4


4.CHECK RELATED PCM AND COMPONENT CONNECTIONS

1. Perform any Service Bulletins that apply.

2. Disconnect all PCM harness connectors.

3. Disconnect all related in-line harness connections (if equipped).

4. Disconnect the related component harness connectors.

5. Inspect harness connectors, component connectors, and all male and female terminals for the following conditions:
•Proper connector installation.
•Damaged connector locks.
•Corrosion.
•Other signs of water intrusion.
•Weather seal damage (if equipped).
•Bent terminals.
•Overheating due to a poor connection (terminal may be discolored due to excessive current draw).
•Terminals that have been pushed back into the connector cavity.
•Check for spread terminals and verify proper terminal tension.

Repair any conditions that are found.

6. Reconnect all PCM harness connectors. Be certain that all harness connectors are fully seated and the connector locks are fully engaged.

7. Reconnect all in-line harness connectors (if equipped). Be certain that all connectors are fully seated and the connector locks are fully engaged.

8. Reconnect all related component harness connectors. Be certain that all connectors are fully seated and the connector locks are fully engaged.

9. With the scan tool, erase DTCs.

10. Test drive or operate the vehicle in accordance with the when monitored and set conditions.

11. With the scan tool, read DTCs.

Did the DTC return?

Yes

•Replace the Powertrain Control Module in accordance with the Service information. (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/MODULE, Powertrain Control - Removal) .
•Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

•Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).
•Test complete.


28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM), 2.4L / Diagnosis and Testing

B10EA-BLOWER MOTOR CONTROL CIRCUIT HIGH

Theory of Operation

To help improve fuel economy and emissions the PCM monitors the HVAC settings for Coolant Temperature Model robustness. The PCM receives HVAC signals in raw data bussed from the HVAC Control Module. These are CAN C signals which indicate the Blower Speed and Driver Side Temperature Door Position. The PCM is required to diagnose these raw signals and set Codes for any failures.

When Monitored and Set Conditions

When Monitored: This diagnostic runs continuously with the ignition on.

Set Conditions:

•The Powertrain Control Module detects that the Blower Motor Control circuit is above a maximum calibrated threshold.

Default Actions:

•The MIL light will illuminate.

Possible Causes

SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN ONE OF THE BLOWER MOTOR CONTROL CIRCUITS
BLOWER MOTOR POWER MODULE
HVAC MODULE
POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)

Always perform the PRE-DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLESHOOTING PROCEDURE before proceeding. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) /Standard Procedure).

Diagnostic Test


1.CHECK FOR AN ACTIVE DTC

1. Turn the ignition on.

2. With the scan tool, read DTCs and record on the repair order.

Is the DTC active or pending?

Yes

•Go To 3

No

•Go To 2


2.CHECK BLOWER OPERATION

1. Turn on the HVAC system and operate the blower throughout it’s entire operating range.

2. With the scan tool, read DTCs.

Did this DTC change from Stored to Active while running the blower motor?

Yes

•Go To 3

No

•Perform the INTERMITTENT CONDITION diagnostic procedure. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).


3.CHECK FOR HVAC MODULE DTCS

1. With the scan tool, View HVAC Module DTCs.

Are there any HVAC Module DTCs present?

Yes

•Perform the appropriate HVAC Module DTC diagnostic procedure.
•Perform the HVAC VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/HVAC - Standard Procedure) .

No

•Go To 4


4.CHECK RELATED PCM AND COMPONENT CONNECTIONS

1. Perform any Service Bulletins that apply.

2. Disconnect all PCM harness connectors.

3. Disconnect all related in-line harness connections (if equipped).

4. Disconnect the related component harness connectors.

5. Inspect harness connectors, component connectors, and all male and female terminals for the following conditions:
•Proper connector installation.
•Damaged connector locks.
•Corrosion.
•Other signs of water intrusion.
•Weather seal damage (if equipped).
•Bent terminals.
•Overheating due to a poor connection (terminal may be discolored due to excessive current draw).
•Terminals that have been pushed back into the connector cavity.
•Check for spread terminals and verify proper terminal tension.

Repair any conditions that are found.

6. Reconnect all PCM harness connectors. Be certain that all harness connectors are fully seated and the connector locks are fully engaged.

7. Reconnect all in-line harness connectors (if equipped). Be certain that all connectors are fully seated and the connector locks are fully engaged.

8. Reconnect all related component harness connectors. Be certain that all connectors are fully seated and the connector locks are fully engaged.

9. With the scan tool, erase DTCs.

10. Test drive or operate the vehicle in accordance with the when monitored and set conditions.

11. With the scan tool, read DTCs.

Did the DTC return?

Yes

•Replace the Powertrain Control Module in accordance with the Service information. (Refer to 08 - Electrical/8E - Electronic Control Modules/MODULE, Powertrain Control - Removal) .
•Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).

No

•Perform the POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST. (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure).
•Test complete.
 
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