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    This is a discussion on YoungSmith53 / Aya Build Thread within the Dodge Dart Builds forums, part of the Dodge Dart Forum - Dodge Dart Discussion category; When I started to pen this up it was Halloween night while the kiddos (just the twins as my son is at his mothers) are ...

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    1. #891
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      When I started to pen this up it was Halloween night while the kiddos (just the twins as my son is at his mothers) are watching the Nightmare Before Christmas (or "Ho-Ho-Halloween" as they call it) for the umpteenth time this year; I was going to update the build thread for all you folks on the .org recovering from Candy Coma on Halloween Night. With it now being Monday morning, I'm hopeful you have already recovered from the Candy Coma, or knowing my luck, this might put you back in a coma too who knows, lol...
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      10/29/2015 Garage Time - part 1

      • rear BWoody's are coming off - SUCCESS

      I don't mean to beat a dead horse but this is a complete failure from a product and a company. When I removed the the left/passenger BWP end-link (top already popped out of socket), all it took was a little pull on the bottom part and I was left with a ball-less rear end-link in my hand. This meant that the top and bottom ball's (from the socket) were still connected and the "end-link" itself was in my hand (top in the Progress sway bar, Bottom to the rear suspension frame). If that doesn't scream (in horror) get them off your Dart, then please just take my advice and DO NOT BUY, PURCHASE or INSTALL BWP End-links. Being in the Halloween spirit I was looking forward to some dissecting (MUHAHAHAHAHAHA)....
      • BWoody's are then getting dissected (much to @jsblanch 's delight) - NOPE
        Sorry @jsblanch , I did not get a chance to get the power tools out on Thursday night. It was the only thing I didn't get done; but once the BWP's came off....

      • rear OEM's are going back on (Top locking bolt torque spec is 46 ft/lbs. Bottom locking bolt torque spec is 41 ft/lbs. (based off Moog specs)) - SUCCESS
      Driver Side
      Passenger Side
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      Straight forward installation of the Stock (stick-like) OEM Rear End-links. I torqued them to "Moog" spec and they have been running just fine. The only tip I will share to make it easier for installation is once you get underneath your Dart, you are going to want to "pre-load" the suspension. I didn't take any pics (of the method I use), but here is a good example:
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      This will save you a lot of time and cursing with lining up the end-links to the proper holes. I normally use the spare tire jack when underneath the car since it fits perfectly and does exactly what I need it to do. With the addition of the 19mm Rear Sway bar, I did setup the OEM end-links to the firm setting (inner hole) making the rate on the 19mm bar @ 209 lbs/inch.

      Thus ends this episode of "As the End-link turns" or "Guiding End-link Light" maybe... "General Garage Hospital"? Anyway you get the gist; as I previously mentioned, I'm tired of beating a dead horse with the BWoody's. The stocker OEM's are installed and they will stay on until the MOOG K750697 LEFT REAR Stabilizer Bar end-link & K750696 RIGHT REAR Stabilizer Bar end-link's are released. Until then I hope not to talk about rear suspension (or any suspension) until then. This has been a long played out soap opera, and enough is enough...

      • AVS In-Channel Installation (need to re-read & check with @viperman96 for the easiest way to install) - SUCCESS

      Another straight forward installation with following the instructions that came with the AVS's (AVI being the plural?) Anyway, it's been a long time coming as this is only the third true "exterior mod" I've done on Aya.
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      I had them installed on all my previous cars & trucks when I would smoke in them (I don't smoke in Aya, and I'm slowly but surely quitting). To be honest, I never saw a need for them until I was driving home on my long commute (previous job) when it was the hot rain and I didn't want to put on the A/C. I couldn't crack the windows to get air flow and I was just sweating my butt off. I knew then I needed them. I think they look good installed, and it will definitely help out next year in the spring and summer. Added points because the wife and kiddos like them as well...

      more to come (got super busy (currently in a 1:15+ outage at work))...

      stay tuned (especially for the epiphany I had when doing the oil change)
      Last edited by youngsmith53; 11-02-2015 at 10:23 AM. Reason: grammar
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      Thursday 10/29/2015 Garage Time - part 2

      Thursday 10/29/2015 Garage Time - part 2

      for those that are wondering; yes, we are still having issues at my employment, we are now up to an hour and thirty-three minutes into our outage... it sucks and it's not good at all for business and everything else going on right now. But enough about my issues at work, I am sure you all want to hear about the great oil change epiphany. More than likely I am going to split this off of my build thread and into two separate threads for greater visibility and spread of knowledge for the community.

      • Oil Change! (If my mileage calculations are correct and I'm feeling ambitious) - SUPER SUCCESSFUL!!!
        • 5 quarts of NAPA 0w-20 Synthetic Oil
        • NAPA Platinum 47045 "Most Efficient Over-sized filter"
        • Drain/Check Big Bully Catch Can
        • Send Oil Sample to Blackstone Labs for Used Oil Analysis


      Oil Change was completed @ 4,857 miles during this Oil Change Interval. My goal was to push it towards 5k, but due to time constraints I felt it best to change the oil last Thursday when I got a chance. The oil change itself was relativity straight forward, but of course I made it more exciting as usual. I'll go in chronological order...

      #1 - Drain/Check Big Bully Catch Can
      Before
      After
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      With what I was able to catch in the catch can I am seeing the exact same amount of oil like I did the last time I empty'd her out. As you can see I tried to mark on the pictures as much as I could to show the difference in where the "before" & "after" was. I am happy that the oil catch can is doing it's job at this point. Now, with the addition of the Oil Separator (see below) on the return line we will see how much it is leaving the catch can and see how much oil is actually going back to the throttle body. Again I strongly suggest to you that for a happy healthy engine you get an oil catch can. You will have peace of mind reducing "gunk" back to the throttle body and you're engine will thank you for it.

      #2 - Send Oil Sample to Blackstone Labs for Used Oil Analysis
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      This part was a lot of fun. Above was all of the goodies Blackstone send you for your Used Oil Analysis kit. They give you step by step instructions on how to obtain the best specimen for the analysis, which I thought was great (sorry I'm a geek like that). As soon as the oil started to flow out of the oil pan I counted to twelve-thousand (using the one-one-thousand method (lol)) and that more or less put me in prime range of obtaining a good sample from the middle of the pan. I cleaned up the containers, and filled out my information for this oil change interval. Remember the past 4.857 miles I was running NAPA Full Synthetic 0w-20 with Mann Hummel ML-1030 filter. I was able to ship out the oil sample to Blackstone that Friday (10/30/2015) via USPS and per tracking 9400110200829783541103, should be there tomorrow. Excited to get the Used Oil Analysis and see what I need to tweak during my oil changes.. It's all fascinating to me...

      #3 - NAPA Platinum 47045 "Most Efficient Over-sized filter"
      aka the great oil change epiphany
      Call me crazy, call me what you will; but I try my damnest to help out the community when I can. This oil filter is HUGE, I knew it was huge when I did the research on it. I knew it was huge when I looked at it in the box, but it didn't hit me until I pre-loaded the filter:
      pre-loaded (beside the quart that filled the filter)
      pre-loaded (beside the quart that filled the filter) AND a full quart
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      This go around at NAPA, I picked up 6 quarts of oil because of running one of the biggest oil filters I could. I wanted to make sure I didn't short change the 5.0 quarts of 0w-20 oil I needed for the 2.0L per the manual. This is when the epiphany hit me. This is when the gears started turning in my head.....

      When I pre-loaded my oil filter I put practically a half a quart of oil in the filter. That would mean I would be running with 5.5 quarts instead of just 5 quarts which I normally do (and recommended per the manual). With that being said, running the Platinum 47045 (or Gold 7045) filter might help the 2.4L guys who normally need 5.5 quarts (per Owners Manual) they could potentially have 6 full quarts of oil for their oil capacity. That massive filter might reduce the oil burn off some are seeing with that extra 1/2 quart in the filter combined with the 5.5 quarts in the oil pan

      Yes, I know that the oil burn off doesn't happen to ALL 2.4L owners, I get it, I understand, this might not apply to you... but it is definitely something to consider. 6 quarts vs 5.5 quarts might not seem like a lot BUT when you are considering the "burn off" that various 2.4 owners are seeing to me it would be worth the added peace of mind. We all know the multi-air is funky with how it operates with the oil pressure and what not, with the added 1/2 quart ( same burst rate (no oil pressure loss with the over sized filter) it might be enough to keep the multi-air 'at bay' from consuming oil. I'd love to see a 2.4L owner with known "burn off" issues test out this theory to see if I am on to something or if my epiphany was all for nothing. On paper this makes sense, in reality it might not mean a hill of beans...
      Before
      Installed
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      Open
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      As you can see the filter 47045 is massive when put up in the oil filter cavity. If you look closely you can see on the label that it is 100% Made in America too. The filter almost extends down to the undercarriage plate cover. I've been a big proponent of oversized filters for a long time as I believe it is key to having a happy/healthy engine:

      Bigger filter = more surface area = less pressure drop and time in bypass.
      Bigger filter = more oil capacity = longer OCIs.
      Bigger filter = more filter media = more capacity to hold contaminants.


      Photo dump of all the filters, (I did a full oil filter picture shoot (which I'll try and make a post in the https://www.dodge-dart.org/forum/dodg...tml#post408008 thread when I get a chance) can be found here... I do apologize in advance if I was long winded or didn't make sense during this piece, with my work schedule (today) I was trying to juggle this post as well as work and fixing multiple issues at once. If you do have any other questions, comments or concerns with what I posted about the 2.4L oil epiphany. Please let me know.

      #5 - NAPA 0w-20
      Obligatory Oil Pour:
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      Final thoughts on the oil change, still no crazy noises at initial start-up... more than likely from the pre-loading the filter. Other than that the oil change went smooth as usual. But, you know me better than that, I couldn't just stop at the oil change now could I?!?!?!

      don't you dare SEPARATE yourself from that seat... stay tuned for part #3
      Last edited by youngsmith53; 11-02-2015 at 01:56 PM. Reason: grammar
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      Part 3 and conclusion

      Thursday 10/29/2015 Garage Time - part 3
      separation anxiety


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      This idea came about back when https://www.dodge-dart.org/forum/dodg...be-normal.html was a highly discussed topic in turbo-land. After researching and seeing how much oil I was getting from the catch can (in January), I figured it would be worth a shot to see how much oil is leaving the catch can and how much could potentially be caught leaving said catch can. Way back in July is when I purchased my own DIY air/oil separator as seen here... Thursday I finally got a chance to install it. If you remember back in the July thread, as a refresher I am going to be placing the air/oil separator on the return line to the throttle body as illustrated below, the idea will be to catch whatever oil vapor the catch can does not collect on it's way back to the throttle body:
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      Parts used for the project

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      Installation

      The main thing I was taking in account was placement of the separator. From reading about @Exitus04 's trials and tribulations with his Jeg's separator, I wanted to make sure that it wasn't going to get too hot for it to crack and cause other issues down the road. When reading over the instruction manual for the separator, it stated, Max operation temp 125F. Now, let me preface this as yes, I know that the 1.4t engine bay and 2.0L engine bays run at different temperatures and are configured differently. Main thing I wanted to take into account was proper clearance and as far away from massive heat sources. After much consideration and multiple marker lines on the return oil line, I finally went with this area:
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      I figured with how the engine bay is laid out, it would be a nice spot to keep the separator cool and it would be in a safe area as well. I marked off my area with a marker, measured twice (more like 5 to 6 times), took out my shears and made two clean cuts on the return oil line from the catch can. I then proceeded to insert the separator into the line. First by putting the hose clamps on the hoses, then easing the fittings into the line. I then tighten up the hose clamps until you get a finished product that looks like this...
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      Please note that in the top left picture, you see a triangle (more or less an arrow). This is crucial in having a working separator as that arrow is for the direction of flow the air is going. Since the catch can and pvc valve is a closed loop vacuum, you want to make sure that the arrow is going with the flow of the air. Other than that main tid-bit, I am overall pleased with how the installation went and how well it looks in the engine bay. As you can see in the pictures, I have plenty of bottom clearance to drain as well as no hose rubbing or stresses on the hoses. I did run about 15 miles on Friday (had to go to the podiatrist as well as do some errands) and about another 45 miles on Saturday before work (finally got a chance to listen to the new Coheed CD). I checked the separator after each run and there was no stress cracks or other signs of distress on the separator. *knock on wood* So far... so good.

      I haven't caught anything yet, and maybe I won't. Maybe the catch can is the be all end all for us NA owners and we don't need an air/oil separator. I wanted to try it anyway to see if anything is leaving the catch can and going back to the throttle body. Anyway that I could keep a better grip on the internal cleanliness of the engine the better I'll feel. Now, with all of that being said. This Kobalt set might not work in the 1.4t's setup either. With reading what @Exitus04 went through with his Jeg's one, you turbo guys might be better off with a dual catch can setup. I'm not an engineer but it's something to look into. Much and many thanks to @boardgeneration , @Bullfrog , @Exitus04 , @pkgmsu2000 , @starscream5000 for the idea.

      Grand Conclusion
      Four days, three posts, two hour outage at work and everything knocked off of my "to do" list. Last Thursday was Aya's Manufacturing date birthday (11/29/2012), so it was nice to get some things done for her on her birthday. Oil changes/Tune-Ups always bring a smile to my face, and this one was no different. I'm hoping that extra capacity filters help those out there, and if not well it's back to the drawing board. Speaking of back to the drawing board, I'll be revisiting the rear end-links as soon as the Moog's are released. With the rear sway bar finally hooked up and working as is should (even with the stock/stick OEM's) I took a corner yesterday and it was glued in perfectly nothing squirrelly at all just powered through. I missed that feeling with the suspension. AVS's won't get much use until spring time, but I like the way they look. To be honest with y'all, I really don't have a direction to go into next now that this chapter of the build thread is coming to a close. No real pressing projects or "to-do" lists on my plate (which is sad to be honest). Hopefully winter will be good to us and in spring I'll be checking on the next project I have in store. Thanks for reading and as always if you have any other questions, comments or concerns let me know...

      stay tuned
      Last edited by youngsmith53; 11-17-2015 at 05:07 AM. Reason: grammar/syntax
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    5. #894
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      Quote Originally Posted by youngsmith53 View Post
      I haven't caught anything yet, and maybe I won't. Maybe the catch can is the be all end all for us NA owners and we don't need an air/oil separator.
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      I'm pretty sure y'all are tired of reading these posts. But it seems like there is a new revelation that I find, or a new stone I've turn over to find something new. Point being, I left work early for a family event (nothing bad) and when I parked Aya in the garage I popped the hood to check on the air/oil separator to see how it was holding up and if I caught anything....
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      Yes, I felt like Jed Clampett, I hit oil that is, black gold, Texas tea. Yes, the Air/Oil Separator is already collecting oil that is leaving the catch can. Here is a zoomed in circled pic of the oil:
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      This is only after 75.3 miles since installation. Noticeable oil that is being collected after only a short time of installation is intriguing (especially on an NA setup). Makes you wonder how much oil is actually being recirculated with the PCV system. I'm torn because, yes I was/am excited to see oil be collected, but also frustrated to see that amount of oil in such a short time. This means that the catch can is doing it's job, but it's not getting all of the oil.

      This revelation has really peaked my curiosity since the PCV valve and closed vacuum is only there for emissions anyway. So there is a lot to look into on if an open loop would be more beneficial to run (sans emissions/legality issues). Another option after talking it over with @Bullfrog could potentially looking at electric vacuum pumps and bypassing putting the oil back into the engine. BUT, we are getting way ahead of ourselves as there is much research to do on the pros/cons of an open loop PCV system.

      Another thing to think about is those 2.4L Multi-air owners that are experiencing excessive oil burn off. If a lowly (I say that in jest (lol)) 2.0L is collecting significant amounts of oil in it's catch can AND still there is still significant amounts of oil getting through the catch can to be burned off (as seen in the separator), whose to say the PCV system on the 2.4's aren't experiencing massive amounts of oil being burned off without a catch can/separator setup. A lot (the majority (you know the type)) of 2.4 owners wouldn't even know what a catch can was, let alone an air/oil separator. They aren't going to go through the hassle of setting one up either. There has to be a better way for those owners to be aware of this as something is not adding up (at least in my mind) with how our PCV loop is setup. Looks like I found my next project to research in regards to the PCV system on the 2.0/2.4's.

      There simply has to be a more efficient way for the engine to operate...
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      @youngsmith53 thanks for those great post rest assured I'm not tired of reading them. I was already planning to get the big bully catch can to prove to dodge how much oil I burn. Seeing that there is oil going past the catch can kinda make me worried at the quantity my engine as burn so far.
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      Great write-up as usual! I will be installing a catch can ASAP on my 2.4. I will be attempting to beat my previous Dodge Neon 160k mile ownership. My next major step will be to drain and refill the transmission fluid. I will attempt this around the 40k mile mark.

      BTW, that picture of Aya in the garage looks like a bright yellow color. I know it's just the camera but it looks really good, I think they should offer that as a color choice in the future.
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      a "fitting" teaser

      We can rebuild it. We have the technology. We can make it better than it was. Better, stronger, cooler.

      Parts ordered, pending delivery
      ...stay tuned
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      it was one of the best email's I've received in a long time...

      Blackstone Labs came back with the UOA (Used Oil Analysis) on Aya...
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      To view an information sheet explaining the Blackstone report, click on the following link: Blackstone Labs. With that being said, I am super pleased on how the NAPA Synthetic 0w-20/Mann Hummel ML-1030 combination held up through out the OCI (Oil Change Interval). With my commute being relatively short (+/- 6 miles) it's great to see that the NAPA oil is doing it's job by not breaking down, and still solidly protecting the engine. I will take Blackstone's advice and run this OCI (NAPA 0w-20/NAPA Platinum 47045) till around 6,000 miles (or Nov 1, 2016 whichever comes first) and see what the report says after that...

      Personally, I'm over the moon right now. I have a peace of mind with having a Blackstone Labs report back up all of the hard research I have done over the months with oil and oil filters for our 2.0/2.4 NA platform. I'm not one to "pat myself on the back", but I'm damn proud of myself right now. As always a little research goes a long way, hopefully this will help someone out on the .org, maybe not now, but in the coming years...
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      I'm a huge Field of Dreams fan... (teaser #2)

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      ...stay tuned
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      Mid-November Odd's & End's

      Mid-November Odd's & End's

      Let's see, until the big reveal pays off (it's coming soon...) I figured I'd hit or revisit on a few topics here and there since we are in the middle of November and it's been one of those days. Let's just say that Friday the 13th weekend was hell on me and the family. If it wasn't for ya'll on the .org I don't know what I would have done. I guess we'll start off with something "fun"...


      I parked in a public parking garage last night (well not "public" it was a hospital garage); but I figured since it was pretty close to empty and in the wee early hours of the morning that I would take advantage of the situation/environment and got another sound clip for you guys with the Borla exhaust. I know public garage are pretty good with acoustics with sound waves echoing around and off the walls to give a good sound. Plus it was a nice "cold" start to give a "good" clips for y'all. Continuing on...

      I'm always a sucker for Bob Is The Oil Guy | The Internet's Number One Motor Oil Site forums and I like researching all I can when I can on oil and other goodies for the engine. I'll be the first one to admit that I thought all "fuel additives/cleaners" were just there to make my wallet lighter. After research and digging deeper into the subject, I was enlightened. With that being said way back in July before Garage-mahal day, I was doing research on additives since I know a lot of you use Seafoam, and yeah I see the good things it can do to an engine here:
      Me, personally I LOVE the lawnmower video, I think that is one of the best videos I have seen on youtube in a long time. BUT, I don't drive a lawnmower, I drive a Dart. I also am not going to pour it directly into the TB or anything remotely like that. So with the above videos and all this talk you might think from the above videos I went with Seafoam. Au contraire, mon frčre. I'm not one to just sit around and see what everyone else is doing and going with... Ne saura pas quoi que ce soit si je reste statu quo... tu sais?
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      Techron | OTC and Third Party Oil Additives | Bob Is The Oil Guy
      Techron...really? | Fuels and Fuel Additives: Gasoline and Diesel | Bob Is The Oil Guy
      Fuel Injector Cleaner Recommendation | Fuels and Fuel Additives: Gasoline and Diesel | Bob Is The Oil Guy
      I would also be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to @EMount91 for his post as well on the .org https://www.dodge-dart.org/forum/dodg...m-cleaner.html. So, I am sure you are all wondering on why I would use Chevron and not Seafoam? It was this thread that really pushed me over the edge:

      BMW is now recommending Chevron gasoline for their new vehicles. BMW recommends Chevron fuel specifically because of the Techron fuel additive that Chevron supplies. This additive substantially reduces the formation of deposits in the injection system and valve-train and is supplied in a preventative concentration. BMW recommends an additional fuel system cleaning additive to be used periodically in our vehicles. Three products are warranty-approved: BMW's own fuel system cleaner, Chevron Techron, and Redline SI-1. These products are packaged in a small bottle and are added to a tank of fuel during filling. Be sure to follow the recommended procedures for use specific to the product you decide on. My personal choice is the Techron product, based primarily upon my own experience of its' effectiveness and reasonable cost. I have also used and liked the Redline SI-1 product but am slightly offended by its' high price and limited availability. The BMW product is even more expensive. The Techron additive should only be used a maximum of twice per oil change but that is more frequently than is usually necessary. I personally make a religion of using only Chevron Super Unleaded fuel (for low sulphur content and ongoing low-dosage levels of Techron) and adding one bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner to the second-to-last tank of fuel before every oil change.

      With that being said, if it is good enough for BMW's to license it as their own (as well as formulate it with Chevron) then it is good enough for Aya. I wanted to put the Chevron in around when I did my oil change, last Saturday (11/07) I finally went through the tank of gas and I poured the Chevron in and proceeded to fill up with 93 (yes, even without the Spectrum installed I use 93 (sue me )). Does the Ye Old Butt Dyno see anything? I'm not going to lie, I don't feel a difference with the Chevron as opposed to without it. Now granted, this was before I got my Blackstone report, so I am wondering with the Chevron added this go around (I'm only putting one bottle in this OIC) if it will reduce the gasoline that they found in the oil from the report. Or how the report will look with the Chevron added to the gasoline. It might be miniscule, it might not even show up, but it will be worth noting to Blackstone so they have a heads up (and they have a place for fuel additives).

      Conclusions

      Yesterday I just hit 22K on Aya and I try and take care of her as much as I can when I can however I can. I have something cool planned for the next project and I can't wait to take the wraps off of it until all parts come in from the fine folks at USPS & Fed-Ex. Until then, thank you for listening to me and being there... you guys are a great community and it means the world to me that I have friends like you guys to pick me up when the outside world is crazy. Much obliged as always, until then

      ...stay tuned
      Last edited by youngsmith53; 11-17-2015 at 05:05 AM. Reason: syntax
      YoungSmith53 / Aya Build Thread
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