Front main seal, among other things
Follow Us On Follow us on Google Plus Follow us on Facebook

    Front main seal, among other things

    This is a discussion on Front main seal, among other things within the Dodge Dart 1.4L MultiAir Turbo forums, part of the Dodge Dart Garage - The Mopar Zone category; Greetings all - long time forum member, but mostly I lurk and find the info I need. This time is a bit different...what I need ...

    User Tag List

    Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
    Results 1 to 10 of 11
    Like Tree3Likes

    Thread: Front main seal, among other things

    1. #1
      Tire Carrier
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      speedfreeq's Avatar
      is Stoked!
       

      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Asheville, NC
      Posts
      39
      Vehicle
      2013 Dodge Dart Rallye 1.4L Turbo/6M
      Mods
      HPSI Silicone CAI | GFB DV+ | Autometer Boost Gage | Alpine 10" Sub | Pioneer 6x9 Rears
      Liked
      9 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      2 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)

      Front main seal, among other things

      Greetings all - long time forum member, but mostly I lurk and find the info I need. This time is a bit different...what I need is some solid guidance from mechanics experienced with this engine. I don't have a FSM, nor will I drop the coin to purchase one, but I've been fixing Italian engines for most of my fifty years on this planet, so I feel I'm smart enough to wing it.

      My 2013 Dart Rallye has a little over 75k, and has been making a horrible clatter, along with a low oil pressure light, at idle when hot, for probably 20k now. No CEL or other issues until it began leaving a little puddle of oil wherever I parked it. I couldn't put it down for repair because a) it was my daily driver and b) there's nobody near me that I trust to touch this engine - the local dealership is HORRIBLE and ignorant, and there's no shop in town (I called EVERY ONE) that has any idea what to do with a Fiat 1.4l turbo engine. So, I do it myself.

      Got the car in the air finally, got the timing belt cover off without even resorting to YouTube, and found a couple of concerning things: I noticed fresh oil leaking from the forward oil gallery plug behind the cam timing sprocket, so I put an 8mm allen in there and got easily a quarter turn on that plug. The rear gallery plug (10mm allen) was tight as balls, so I went back and put a little more on the front plug.

      Name:  gallery plug.jpg
Views: 74
Size:  157.4 KB

      After a ziptie session to keep things out of the way , I headed to the car wash with a can of degreaser and blasted the whole front of the engine, then returned home. With the car on jacks, I started it and found the front main seal leaking, a drop every three-four seconds.

      I pulled the right side wheel and fender liner, then the serpentine belt (again - no manual, but it wasn't rocket science). It gets even more interesting here, as I found all three bolts holding the CKP tuning ring/accessory drive pulley basically hand tight! No idea how long that thing's been that way, but it begins to explain some of the glitchy throttle response and weird boost fluctuations!

      So now I'm down to the timing belt. I found the procedure in the Timing Belt Failure thread, and I don't have those special tools (OR a service manual LOL). But I'm a machinist also, so making a tool to do the thing should be a piece of cake. I've got to get the main timing gear off though, to get the main seal out. At this point I have both the cam cover and the oil pan off, so I guess I'll come up with a way to block both crank and cam in place while I do that.

      Name:  main seal leak.jpg
Views: 75
Size:  144.4 KB

      I have a hunch that I've slightly wiped a big-end bearing, which would explain the clatter and the low oil pressure - has anybody here replaced those with the engine in place? Looks like a typical con rod, and I've done con rod bearings in VW's and my old Taurus SHO from underneath. I'm wondering if the bolts are TTY though? Does anybody have access to that info? And looking for torque spec for the big end bolts.

      From what I've read here, I'll go ahead and replace the water pump and idler/tensioner pulley while I'm in this deep.

      If any other Fiat mechanics are seeing this and think I'm headed down some rabbithole, please let me know. This has got to happen, though, so responses suggesting I can't accomplish it or should just take it to the dealer will be ignored. It will not be the first (or last) time I replaced a timing belt without the proper instructions or tools.
      Fred Schuldt
      Asheville, NC

      2013 Dart Rallye 1.4T/6M - Daily driver, 59k
      Just now starting the mods...

      If you ain't smart, you better be lucky!

    2. #2
      Master Mechanic
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      alpinegreenneon's Avatar
      This user has no status.
       

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      Location
      NW Wisconsin
      Posts
      1,966
      Liked
      748 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      132 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)
      You really need the FSM. Bearings are different sizes and must be selected. PM your email address.
      -Case

      16 Dart SXT 2.0 TorRed stock
      16 Dart SE 2.0 Laser Blue Pearl stock
      98 Sport Coupe DOHC Alpine Green ATX stock
      95 NYG ACR Coupe (restored)
      18 Ram 1500 3.6 4x4 Std Cab Delmonico Red stock


    3. #3
      Tire Carrier
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      speedfreeq's Avatar
      is Stoked!
       

      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Asheville, NC
      Posts
      39
      Vehicle
      2013 Dodge Dart Rallye 1.4L Turbo/6M
      Mods
      HPSI Silicone CAI | GFB DV+ | Autometer Boost Gage | Alpine 10" Sub | Pioneer 6x9 Rears
      Liked
      9 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      2 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)
      Quote Originally Posted by alpinegreenneon View Post
      You really need the FSM. Bearings are different sizes and must be selected. PM your email address.
      sent, thanks!
      Fred Schuldt
      Asheville, NC

      2013 Dart Rallye 1.4T/6M - Daily driver, 59k
      Just now starting the mods...

      If you ain't smart, you better be lucky!

    4. Remove Advertisements
      Dodge-Dart.org
      Advertisements
       

    5. #4
      Tire Carrier
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      speedfreeq's Avatar
      is Stoked!
       

      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Asheville, NC
      Posts
      39
      Vehicle
      2013 Dodge Dart Rallye 1.4L Turbo/6M
      Mods
      HPSI Silicone CAI | GFB DV+ | Autometer Boost Gage | Alpine 10" Sub | Pioneer 6x9 Rears
      Liked
      9 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      2 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)
      DOES ANYBODY HAVE A PART NUMBER FOR THE FRONT MAIN SEAL??? It doesn't seem to exist in any online database! Looks like it's part of the oil pump assembly? But the seal itself isn't called out with a part number...number 16 in this ficheName:  Engine Oil Pump 1.4L Turbocharged [EAF].png
Views: 67
Size:  246.2 KB
      Last edited by speedfreeq; 02-18-2019 at 08:27 AM.
      Fred Schuldt
      Asheville, NC

      2013 Dart Rallye 1.4T/6M - Daily driver, 59k
      Just now starting the mods...

      If you ain't smart, you better be lucky!

    6. #5
      Tire Carrier
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      speedfreeq's Avatar
      is Stoked!
       

      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Asheville, NC
      Posts
      39
      Vehicle
      2013 Dodge Dart Rallye 1.4L Turbo/6M
      Mods
      HPSI Silicone CAI | GFB DV+ | Autometer Boost Gage | Alpine 10" Sub | Pioneer 6x9 Rears
      Liked
      9 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      2 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)

      so here's something

      I decided to check the con-rod bearings before locking the engine in place to get the timing belt off, and am pretty sure I've found the source of the oil pressure loss and perhaps the noise! Here's a couple pics of number three rod bearing with what I'd consider normal wear for 75k; the rest of the cylinders showed about the same wear.
      Number two, though, shows a YUGE score all the way around on both halves! Not sure what went thru there, but the crank journal is fine, so I'll put new rod bearings in my RockAuto cart.

      Name:  20190218_185435.jpg
Views: 67
Size:  97.1 KB
      Number three showing what I'd consider normal wear:
      Name:  20190218_185444.jpg
Views: 64
Size:  72.3 KB
      Close up of the damage to number two:
      Name:  20190218_185452.jpg
Views: 66
Size:  80.0 KB
      Fred Schuldt
      Asheville, NC

      2013 Dart Rallye 1.4T/6M - Daily driver, 59k
      Just now starting the mods...

      If you ain't smart, you better be lucky!

    7. #6
      Master Mechanic
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      alpinegreenneon's Avatar
      This user has no status.
       

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      Location
      NW Wisconsin
      Posts
      1,966
      Liked
      748 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      132 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)
      I'm sure you have done this before but the FSM warns about removing rod bearings all at once. They want you to do one at a time so you don't bend a valve.
      -Case

      16 Dart SXT 2.0 TorRed stock
      16 Dart SE 2.0 Laser Blue Pearl stock
      98 Sport Coupe DOHC Alpine Green ATX stock
      95 NYG ACR Coupe (restored)
      18 Ram 1500 3.6 4x4 Std Cab Delmonico Red stock


    8. #7
      Tire Carrier
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      speedfreeq's Avatar
      is Stoked!
       

      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Asheville, NC
      Posts
      39
      Vehicle
      2013 Dodge Dart Rallye 1.4L Turbo/6M
      Mods
      HPSI Silicone CAI | GFB DV+ | Autometer Boost Gage | Alpine 10" Sub | Pioneer 6x9 Rears
      Liked
      9 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      2 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)
      Quote Originally Posted by alpinegreenneon View Post
      I'm sure you have done this before but the FSM warns about removing rod bearings all at once. They want you to do one at a time so you don't bend a valve.
      I totally did them one at a time. One and four are in the same plane, two and three in the other. I pulled one and four, then inspected, then reassembled to snug (because I'm going to replace them), and rolled the crank 180 to get to two and three. The pics were taken, then two and three were reassembled so I can continue with the timing belt job. I'll do the con-rod bearings last, right before the pan goes back on.
      Fred Schuldt
      Asheville, NC

      2013 Dart Rallye 1.4T/6M - Daily driver, 59k
      Just now starting the mods...

      If you ain't smart, you better be lucky!

    9. #8
      Tire Carrier
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      speedfreeq's Avatar
      is Stoked!
       

      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Asheville, NC
      Posts
      39
      Vehicle
      2013 Dodge Dart Rallye 1.4L Turbo/6M
      Mods
      HPSI Silicone CAI | GFB DV+ | Autometer Boost Gage | Alpine 10" Sub | Pioneer 6x9 Rears
      Liked
      9 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      2 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)

      deeper and deeper

      Last night I got all the way down to the timing belt! Prior to unbolting the engine mount, I cut a two by four such that I could lower the engine right on to it as I loosened the motor mount upper bolts:
      Name:  crank pulley.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  148.6 KB
      You can also clearly see the ONLY timing mark in the entire timing system. I highlighted it with green paint for my own reference.

      Once I got the four bolts out, and three more holding the motor mount to the frame, then the SEVEN(!!) bolts holding the mount boss to the engine, the timing belt is finally fully exposed for removal:
      Name:  timing belt exposed.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  185.3 KB

      Of course, I need to come up with some holding tools, so I will be making those. I milled this little boss yesterday that fits in the slot on the back of the cam:
      Name:  holding boss.jpg
Views: 57
Size:  107.9 KB
      Here you can see it next to the drive boss on the vacuum pump:
      Name:  vac pump face.jpg
Views: 57
Size:  137.6 KB

      Now all I have to do is get the locations of the vacuum pump mounting holes and waterjet a plate to weld my boss to. I threaded the hole in the center of my boss so that I can bolt on the plate with the boss loose, snug it down, then weld it on my holder plate. Luckily I have access to a CMM, so locating those hole precisely will be a breeze:
      Name:  cmm results.jpg
Views: 54
Size:  77.9 KB

      While I'm at it, I need a similar tool for the crank pulley, so I will get similar data for the crank pulley holes and waterjet a holder that looks something like the template in this pic:
      Name:  templates.jpg
Views: 55
Size:  164.5 KB
      (I'll probably leave the upper hole to drill in place once I've locked the cam down and bolted the crank holder in place, just to ensure I get the exact location.

      Parts are on the way, so once I have the two holders fabbed up, I should be good to go for removing timing belt, crank pulley, and oil pump, then beginning reassembly!

      Meanwhile, I've located a Euro+Drive handheld tuner from Eurocompulsion for a screaming deal, so she should be back running better than ever in the next ten days!
      Fred Schuldt
      Asheville, NC

      2013 Dart Rallye 1.4T/6M - Daily driver, 59k
      Just now starting the mods...

      If you ain't smart, you better be lucky!

    10. #9
      Jackman
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      ig2mdThwifsDart's Avatar
      This user has no status.
       

      Join Date
      Dec 2013
      Posts
      741
      Vehicle
      2013 1.4l Turbo 6-spd manual Citrus Peal
      Liked
      394 times
      Mentioned
      37 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)
      Looks like you're a capable Dude and have things well in hand!
      speedfreeq likes this.
      First mod ; Boost and AFR gauges
      -AGS Delete
      -Big FMIC
      -2 1/2" custom charge pipes
      -Custom (1 off) GTX2060 turbo
      -Custom 3" CAI

      My 40mpg summer DD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M

    11. #10
      Master Mechanic
      Rank
       
      Rep
       
      alpinegreenneon's Avatar
      This user has no status.
       

      Join Date
      Feb 2013
      Location
      NW Wisconsin
      Posts
      1,966
      Liked
      748 times
      Gender
      Male
      Mentioned
      132 Post(s)
      Tagged
      0 Thread(s)
      Quote Originally Posted by speedfreeq View Post
      DOES ANYBODY HAVE A PART NUMBER FOR THE FRONT MAIN SEAL??? It doesn't seem to exist in any online database! Looks like it's part of the oil pump assembly? But the seal itself isn't called out with a part number...number 16 in this ficheName:  Engine Oil Pump 1.4L Turbocharged [EAF].png
Views: 67
Size:  246.2 KB
      Did you ever find a part number for the 1.4 front main seal?
      -Case

      16 Dart SXT 2.0 TorRed stock
      16 Dart SE 2.0 Laser Blue Pearl stock
      98 Sport Coupe DOHC Alpine Green ATX stock
      95 NYG ACR Coupe (restored)
      18 Ram 1500 3.6 4x4 Std Cab Delmonico Red stock


     

     
    Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

    Sponsored Links

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  

    Similar Threads

    1. rear main seal
      By faust in forum Dodge Dart 2.4L Tigershark
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 03-14-2015, 12:09 AM
    2. Dodge Dart among the most-loved cars
      By Delta Dart in forum Dodge Dart General Discussion
      Replies: 3
      Last Post: 02-21-2014, 03:09 PM
    3. new things and old things for the 2014 model
      By itsgodzilla in forum Dodge Dart General Discussion
      Replies: 27
      Last Post: 09-11-2013, 12:53 PM
    4. One of these things doesn't look like the other...
      By chadhhorst in forum Dodge Dart General Discussion
      Replies: 10
      Last Post: 08-23-2013, 10:59 PM
    5. Main reason why I want a Dart
      By IwantADart in forum Dodge Dart General Discussion
      Replies: 10
      Last Post: 03-09-2013, 07:06 PM

    Tags for this Thread