missing, jerking, bucking, blow-by, sudden mileage decrease, no CEL
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    missing, jerking, bucking, blow-by, sudden mileage decrease, no CEL

    This is a discussion on missing, jerking, bucking, blow-by, sudden mileage decrease, no CEL within the Dodge Dart 1.4L MultiAir Turbo forums, part of the Dodge Dart Garage - The Mopar Zone category; 2013 Aero 1.4T, 132k miles This is an ongoing issue but thought I'd add it to the pool of info here for the next guy. ...

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    Thread: missing, jerking, bucking, blow-by, sudden mileage decrease, no CEL

    1. #1
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      missing, jerking, bucking, blow-by, sudden mileage decrease, no CEL

      2013 Aero 1.4T, 132k miles

      This is an ongoing issue but thought I'd add it to the pool of info here for the next guy.

      For about 8 months the car has had a sudden drop-off in mileage. It went from an average of high 30s to low 20s virtually overnight. The instant mileage numbers on the display were way off. Stretches of flat and level road I knew used to give me 60mpg @ 45mph are now giving me 30mpg. I could occassionally give it WOT for a few seconds and things would go back to normal. Sometimes normal would last an hour of highway, sometimes only a couple minutes.

      I thought the turbo sounded different around this time (quieter) but didn't think too much of it. I assumed I was just suddenly paying more attention and didn't really remember what it sounded like.

      Around this time it started missing (it felt to me anyway) occasionally under hard acceleration. Over the course of time the occasional miss became a reliable miss to the point where WOT was absolute carp. Eventually came the occasional popping, like something was dumping pressure. Over time that became a constant feature of WOT. Sounded like I was hitting a rev limiter but only doing 3k. Popped like great grandpa's old John Deere. Then I started getting jerking and hesitation occasionally. That eventually became constant and eventually turned into bucking like an angry rodeo bull trying to throw us out of the car. Over time all of this went from a WOT problem to an "anything past 1/2 throttle" problem.

      An example:

      http://mx.harmon.work/dartmiss.mp4

      The problem was linked to throttle, not RPM. I could shift to get up the 5k but light throttle and it would be fine. But if I tried to give it the beans from a stop or <10mph it would attempt to give me whiplash as low as 1800. If you work the throttle and shift points right you could get it to behave fine at any RPM, but regardless of RPM anything beyond 1/2 throttle became unusable.

      No CEL at any point.

      Through this all I was doing what I could to solve it. Oil changes, new air filter, new plugs, new coils, new oxygen sensors upstream and downstream. (plugs - a couple sets SIKR9A and a set of Autolite 5663, coils - Spectre from RockAuto and OEM from dealership, oxygen sensors - OEM from dealership) None of it made any difference. We were reduced to granny driving. Merging onto a highway was painful, jumping out into traffic on a busy street was impossible. We just had to wait for gaps big enough to creep onto the road.

      After covering all my bases maintenance-wise we took it to the dealership, Maximum Care Lifetime Warranty in hand. They took one look at it and declared bad wastegate.

      They just replaced the turbo and took it out for a spin this morning. Same problem with jerking under WOT. The woman in service that was telling me about it said, "Now, when you take off hard it has plenty of power, but...heheheh, it's got LOTS of power...but when you take off hard it still jerks pretty bad."

      Now they're saying the clutches in the DDCT need replaced. They're keeping it another week.

      That's where we stand now, Jan 3, 2019.

      Josh

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      Wow.. That's crazy and unfortunately with a turbo engine it could be a ton of stuff.. That's great that you have the Max care warranty, but... Why didn't you just take it straight to the dealer if you have warranty?
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      I'm almost thinking it's the DDCT.

      The transmission paired to the 1.4 is notorious for clutch issues. I've never driven one myself, but what you're describing sounds like a transmission issue to me.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dartanyion View Post
      ... Why didn't you just take it straight to the dealer if you have warranty?
      I've gotten stuck with big bills before by not doing my due diligence.

      "So, turned out it was just a cracked spark plug, so we replaced it...spark plugs aren't covered by warranty so that's $100 for the plug. Add labor, shop supplies, shame on you fee, pool boy's tip, blah, bah, blah..."


      Wanted to knock out all the regular maintenance and consumables before taking it in just to avoid all that.

      Plus, the warranty has a $100 deductible per incident, so if I can solve it with a $30 set of plugs or a $40 oxygen sensor then I've saved myself some cash.

      Josh
      Last edited by Harmon20; 01-04-2019 at 07:14 AM.
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      I would check to things. You said they replaced the turbo because of a bad wastegate (wastegate being my first guess too). Even with the new one, you may want to try adjusting the wastegate (YouTube).

      Also do with that many miles on the car, you should check your mounts. The engine mounts are oil filled and tend to leak. The transmission mount is likely shredded given how many miles you have.
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      Did the wastegate actuator adjustment back in 2014.

      I'll look into the mounts too. The abuse they've taken lately can't have been good for them, but I've not experienced anything that feels like mount failures I've had before.

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      Dealership replaced the turbo and clutches in the DDCT. They told us it was fixed and we could come and get it. We did the paperwork, paid for the timing belt/water pump replacement I'd asked for since I had 132k miles on it, and started home. I didn't even make it out of the parking lot before we knew that it wasn't fixed and it had acquired some new problems. The intake plenum was coming off the turbo because it hadn't been tightened down, the front end is squeaking when turning like a 40 yr old pickup with bad ball joints, there's a "tweet" or "squeak" or something coming from the timing belt, and they busted the heat shield on the turbo:

      Name:  ths.JPG
Views: 150
Size:  61.8 KB

      We went around the block. When the 1-2 shift came up the engine loses power for a split second so you lurch forward in the seat, then secon SLAMS into gear hard and throws you back in the seat and sounds like someone just smacked the trans with a 15lb sledgehammer. Feels like the thing is trying to take your head off, and that is only at around half throttle. From that point on the car is absolutely gutless. Acceleration is nearly non-existent. If you floor it the same boost dump happens and it actually slows down.

      My wife was pissed. We went back to the service office and told the service manager what was going on. He just gave her a blank look and said he had no idea what she was talking about and that we should talk to the tech, Kevin. This car has been in his shop for a month and has had thousands of dollars thrown at it, but he doesn't know what we're talking about. Kevin comes out and the wife is sputtering mad. She just tells him, "You're going for a ride. Let's go." Kevin looked around with a slightly paniced look on his face and everyone - service manager, assistant, counter girl - just looked away and got busy doing something else, leaving him high and dry with a angry customer. The panic turned to resignation and he just dropped his shoulders, muttered an "ok", and followed her out.

      We go around the block. The 1-2 shift hits and he says, yeah, it'll do that till the clutches get worn in.

      The boost dump starts happening and he swears it wasn't doing that before and that they had fixed it, and he's so frustrated by it because the computer isn't giving them any indication that anything is wrong. He doesn't say anything about any of the other issues.

      We get back to the office and Kevin say's he'll look at it some more and try to figure it out. I later hear the assistant service manager tell the girl working the service desk that there really isn't anything wrong with the car, it just needs to be broke in and "it has to re-learn itself" and then all the problems will go away so they're going to fill the tank and make one of the minimum wage guys drive it around town all day.

      That was all a week ago. My wife calls this morning to get an update. They said that it was still out for a drive. Wife asked if it came back and was still acting the same way, what was the plan? They told her they would give it back to us and we'd just have to drive it like that and the problems would work themselves out.

      Seems unlikely, but I'm not an engineer, so what do I know?

      Harmon
      Last edited by Harmon20; 01-28-2019 at 12:49 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Harmon20 View Post
      Dealership replaced the turbo and clutches in the DDCT. They told us it was fixed and we could come and get it. We did the paperwork, paid for the timing belt/water pump replacement I'd asked for since I had 132k miles on it, and started home. I didn't even make it out of the parking lot before we knew that it wasn't fixed and it had acquired some new problems. The intake plenum was coming off the turbo because it hadn't been tightened down, the front end is squeaking when turning like a 40 yr old pickup with bad ball joints, there's a "tweet" or "squeak" or something coming from the timing belt, and they busted the heat shield on the turbo:

      Name:  ths.JPG
Views: 150
Size:  61.8 KB

      We went around the block. When the 1-2 shift came up the engine loses power for a split second so you lurch forward in the seat, then secon SLAMS into gear hard and throws you back in the seat and sounds like someone just smacked the trans with a 15lb sledgehammer. Feels like the thing is trying to take your head off, and that is only at around half throttle. From that point on the car is absolutely gutless. Acceleration is nearly non-existent. If you floor it the same boost dump happens and it actually slows down.

      My wife was pissed. We went back to the service office and told the service manager what was going on. He just gave her a blank look and said he had no idea what she was talking about and that we should talk to the tech, Kevin. This car has been in his shop for a month and has had thousands of dollars thrown at it, but he doesn't know what we're talking about. Kevin comes out and the wife is sputtering mad. She just tells him, "You're going for a ride. Let's go." Kevin looked around with a slightly paniced look on his face and everyone - service manager, assistant, counter girl - just looked away and got busy doing something else, leaving him high and dry with a angry customer. The panic turned to resignation and he just dropped his shoulders, muttered an "ok", and followed her out.

      We go around the block. The 1-2 shift hits and he says, yeah, it'll do that till the clutches get worn in.

      The boost dump starts happening and he swears it wasn't doing that before and that they had fixed it, and he's so frustrated by it because the computer isn't giving them any indication that anything is wrong. He doesn't say anything about any of the other issues.

      We get back to the office and Kevin say's he'll look at it some more and try to figure it out. I later hear the assistant service manager tell the girl working the service desk that there really isn't anything wrong with the car, it just needs to be broke in and "it has to re-learn itself" and then all the problems will go away so they're going to fill the tank and make one of the minimum wage guys drive it around town all day.

      That was all a week ago. My wife calls this morning to get an update. They said that it was still out for a drive. Wife asked if it came back and was still acting the same way, what was the plan? They told her they would give it back to us and we'd just have to drive it like that and the problems would work themselves out.

      Seems unlikely, but I'm not an engineer, so what do I know?

      Harmon
      OMFG... This makes me so burning mad..
      No. I'm damn sure that's not a 'break in' type of thing. They broke the damn heat shield... WTF?! I would go to FCA on this.. Yeah they don't generally care warranty wise, but you paid for this and they wouldn't want someone suing. I'm not a sue happy person, but that's ridiculous and guaranteed it was #1 - Incompetency of the person working on the car #2 - the dealership hoping to lowball you on this to make you go away #3 - You paid for something to be fixed and it's not. That doesn't take an engineer man... Don't get screwed over. Keep at them.
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    10. #9
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      Heat shields are pretty easy to rip and it would have been easier to replace it instead of adding all those washers. There are all kinds of specs in the rebuild procedure for the DDCT. Tech was probably to lazy to look them up. There is a special tool for setting the clutch, I wonder if he used it?
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    11. #10
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      This is sort of Deja Vu .... from the "early days" on the forum . But it's an interesting read. I'm a bit of a nostalgia freak.
      In short however, the most painful reads from the old days were that of the dual clutch models. This won't help your cause , OP, but, I pose the question as to why you don't hear much about dual clutch trannys in most vehicles anymore. Ford had their own debacle with the Focus . High end cars , like a $100,000 Lexus LC500 sports performance car is using a "traditional" automatic transmission with a torque converter. It's surely not a cost thing. But anyway, good luck with your Aero. But as a "feel good" observation - you're at 132K miles. If you owned it from New, that's not too shabby!!
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