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    1.4T MPx bored throttle body.

    This is a discussion on 1.4T MPx bored throttle body. within the Dodge Dart 1.4L MultiAir Turbo Engine Mods forums, part of the Dodge Dart 1.4L MultiAir Turbo category; Originally Posted by Exitus04 The only reason that I am upset is because you came into my thread, which I have put months of work ...

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    Thread: 1.4T MPx bored throttle body.

    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Exitus04 View Post
      The only reason that I am upset is because you came into my thread, which I have put months of work into testing and basically said "NOPE, you're dumb... There is NO way that it can be what you are saying" When like I said, i tested 3 different brand new bored throttle bodies and all 3 of them caused the same CEL.

      As for the other member who said they bought a dart off you, they did not specify what it was so I was just honestly asking. We have all been waiting to see you do this turbo modification.

      Now, I KNOW for a fact that this engine can make up to 430+whp there are Punto Evo 1.4t built in Greece that are making this power right now... BUT these are EXTREMELY modified. I talking full internal replacements, camshafts, bigger turbo, injectors, exhaust manifolds... etc and the one big thing that you said that you dont need... a tune.
      Never said you were Dumb, just that you post many things that are miss informing.

      I came into this thread to try and help you with info that I thought you would have already considered, since I got that info from you.

      Turns out that info was wrong and that is the reason for the derail, nothing else. It shows you how confusing and twisted things can get when people are coming at something from completely different views.

      Now, the Good new is there should be more Hope now then a day ago when it was still believed that only the 2013 1.4l turbo could be manipulated.

      I'm aware of the wait, trust me. Any idea what it feels like to Believe you've had the answer since before Tork even built their total Fail turbo upgrade? To have taken it to the point where the actual turbo, a turbo combo that exists no where else AFAIK, has been sitting under your bench for going on 3 years and all you have to do it about a week of bolt it on and test it to finally Answer all the Q's!

      Will be interesting to see if any are even still around when I get it done, and I Will get it done! Even more interesting to consider the difference, if any, it would have made if I would have done it all the years ago...…..
      Exitus04 likes this.
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    2. #22
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      That sensor in your pic looks like a pressure sensor. There is a very similar looking sensor on the fuel filler tube vent, the fuel tank pressure sensor:

      Name:  dartfueltankpressuresensor.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  67.5 KB


      Both of the following are from the FSM 1.4L PCM diagnostics section of the FSM. No mention of MAF because there is none.

      28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) / Diagnosis and Testing

      P04DB-00-CRANKCASE VENTILATION SYSTEM DISCONNECTED

      Theory of Operation

      When the engine is running and not in boost, the crankcase ventilation hose provides filtered clean air from the clean air tube to the PCV system through the crankcase. During boost the flow reverses and PCV vapors are pushed from the crankcase, through the tube, into the clean air tube, then into the turbocharger, and eventually into the Intake Manifold where they are burned. If the crankcase ventilation hose is disconnected from the clean air tube, PCV vapors will leak into the atmosphere whenever the engine is in boost.

      The PCM will run a diagnostic to determine if the crankcase ventilation hose is disconnected. This monitor only runs for a short time during engine cranking and initial start up. The Crankcase Pressure Sensor is connected to the crankcase ventilation hose fitting on the clean air tube. When the clean side of the PCV system is intact, the sensor will detect the pressure pulsations coming through the tube and the diagnostic monitor will pass. If any part of the clean air side is disconnected or restricted, the sensor will not see the pulsations and the diagnostic monitor will fail. If the sensor is stuck in range, and does not change when the diagnostic monitor is running, the diagnostic will fail.


      When Monitored and Set Conditions

      When Monitored: This diagnostic runs when the following conditions are met:

      •Ignition off time for more than 20 minutes.
      •AAT and IAT Sensor readings are above 4°C (39.2°F).
      •At engine crank and initial start up for approximately three seconds.
      ◦NOTE: This diagnostic will be aborted if the accelerator pedal is pressed while the test is running.


      Set Conditions:

      •The PCM does not read any pulsations in the Crankcase Pressure Sensor during cranking or initial start up.


      Default Actions:

      •The MIL light will illuminate.


      Possible Causes

      CRANKCASE VENTILATION HOSE DISCONNECTED OR LEAKING
      CRANKCASE VENTILATION HOSE
      CRANKCASE PRESSURE SENSOR



      28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) / Diagnosis and Testing

      P2173-00-THROTTLE ACTUATOR CONTROL SYSTEM HIGH AIR FLOW DETECTED

      When Monitored and Set Conditions

      When Monitored: This diagnostic runs continuously when the following conditions are met:

      •With the engine running.
      •No Throttle Position Sensor DTCs active.
      •The short term fuel trim is between 17% and (-22)%.


      Set Conditions:

      •The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) has detected a small vacuum leak in the intake system.


      Default Actions:

      •The MIL light will illuminate.


      Possible Causes

      VACUUM LEAK
      MAP SENSOR
      THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR/THROTTLE BODY
      POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


      I am going to say without any doubt that is the crankcase pressure sensor. The intake air schematic previously posted also shows the same wire colors.

      Name:  crankcasepressuresensor14b.jpg
Views: 106
Size:  37.4 KB

      Name:  crankcasepressuresensor14c.jpg
Views: 100
Size:  83.4 KB
      Last edited by alpinegreenneon; 02-13-2019 at 05:57 PM.
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    3. #23
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      Points were made, counter points were offered, we are now into goating territory. Lets all digest the information a bit and then come back around to a civil discussion mates. Its been a cold dark winter.
      dad's dart, Exitus04 and jsblanch like this.

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    5. #24
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      Yesh .... let's remember what next year is: 2020.
      And you all know, Hindsight IS 2020 .
      Think about that for a second. I feel a bumper sticker coming.
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      ​Take Me To Your Leader

    6. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by dad's dart View Post
      Yesh .... let's remember what next year is: 2020.
      And you all know, Hindsight IS 2020 .
      Think about that for a second. I feel a bumper sticker coming.
      True enough, and looking back I should have chose my words more carefully, considering who it was I was coversing with.

      Sorry @Exitus04 if I came across to harshly, I have a tendency to go for the jugular when I feel that someone is not taking responsibility for stating things that are incorrect or misleading. Unfortunately, this comes from all of the years being on other forums and watching so many fail from following the Wrong info that I started to go souly after the truth/ content with no regard for the person.

      I do not see you as "one of those people" as you Do post helpful info and I have seen you openly help others on this forum.

      So I have nothing against you, just the misinformation out there that has held the 1.4l turbo community back as a whole.

      I should have simply PM'd you to jog your memory and I will try to remember that in any future instances

      Actually, looking at it now it's that Stupid Wink Emoji! A Wink should be a Kind Helpful indication that you are sending a msg while meaning No Harm.

      That Emoji looks like it got it's grin from the Cheshire Cat! Will be a lot more careful how I use it going forward...….
      Last edited by ig2mdThwifsDart; 02-14-2019 at 07:47 AM.
      First mod ; Boost and AFR gauges
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      -2 1/2" custom charge pipes
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      My 40mpg summer DD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M

    7. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by alpinegreenneon View Post
      That sensor in your pic looks like a pressure sensor. There is a very similar looking sensor on the fuel filler tube vent, the fuel tank pressure sensor:

      Name:  dartfueltankpressuresensor.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  67.5 KB


      Both of the following are from the FSM 1.4L PCM diagnostics section of the FSM. No mention of MAF because there is none.

      28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) / Diagnosis and Testing

      P04DB-00-CRANKCASE VENTILATION SYSTEM DISCONNECTED

      Theory of Operation

      When the engine is running and not in boost, the crankcase ventilation hose provides filtered clean air from the clean air tube to the PCV system through the crankcase. During boost the flow reverses and PCV vapors are pushed from the crankcase, through the tube, into the clean air tube, then into the turbocharger, and eventually into the Intake Manifold where they are burned. If the crankcase ventilation hose is disconnected from the clean air tube, PCV vapors will leak into the atmosphere whenever the engine is in boost.

      The PCM will run a diagnostic to determine if the crankcase ventilation hose is disconnected. This monitor only runs for a short time during engine cranking and initial start up. The Crankcase Pressure Sensor is connected to the crankcase ventilation hose fitting on the clean air tube. When the clean side of the PCV system is intact, the sensor will detect the pressure pulsations coming through the tube and the diagnostic monitor will pass. If any part of the clean air side is disconnected or restricted, the sensor will not see the pulsations and the diagnostic monitor will fail. If the sensor is stuck in range, and does not change when the diagnostic monitor is running, the diagnostic will fail.


      When Monitored and Set Conditions

      When Monitored: This diagnostic runs when the following conditions are met:

      •Ignition off time for more than 20 minutes.
      •AAT and IAT Sensor readings are above 4°C (39.2°F).
      •At engine crank and initial start up for approximately three seconds.
      ◦NOTE: This diagnostic will be aborted if the accelerator pedal is pressed while the test is running.


      Set Conditions:

      •The PCM does not read any pulsations in the Crankcase Pressure Sensor during cranking or initial start up.


      Default Actions:

      •The MIL light will illuminate.


      Possible Causes

      CRANKCASE VENTILATION HOSE DISCONNECTED OR LEAKING
      CRANKCASE VENTILATION HOSE
      CRANKCASE PRESSURE SENSOR



      28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics / MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) / Diagnosis and Testing

      P2173-00-THROTTLE ACTUATOR CONTROL SYSTEM HIGH AIR FLOW DETECTED

      When Monitored and Set Conditions

      When Monitored: This diagnostic runs continuously when the following conditions are met:

      •With the engine running.
      •No Throttle Position Sensor DTCs active.
      •The short term fuel trim is between 17% and (-22)%.


      Set Conditions:

      •The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) has detected a small vacuum leak in the intake system.


      Default Actions:

      •The MIL light will illuminate.


      Possible Causes

      VACUUM LEAK
      MAP SENSOR
      THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR/THROTTLE BODY
      POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM)


      I am going to say without any doubt that is the crankcase pressure sensor. The intake air schematic previously posted also shows the same wire colors.

      Name:  crankcasepressuresensor14b.jpg
Views: 106
Size:  37.4 KB

      Name:  crankcasepressuresensor14c.jpg
Views: 100
Size:  83.4 KB
      I'm pretty sure that is it! It looks identical! That would explain the CEL for the PCV being "disconnected" when I built my intake.

      Quote Originally Posted by ig2mdThwifsDart View Post
      True enough, and looking back I should have chose my words more carefully, considering who it was I was coversing with.

      Sorry @Exitus04 if I came across to harshly, I have a tendency to go for the jugular when I feel that someone is not taking responsibility for stating things that are incorrect or misleading. Unfortunately, this comes from all of the years being on other forums and watching so many fail from following the Wrong info that I started to go souly after the truth/ content with no regard for the person.

      I do not see you as "one of those people" as you Do post helpful info and I have seen you openly help others on this forum.

      So I have nothing against you, just the misinformation out there that has held the 1.4l turbo community back as a whole.

      I should have simply PM'd you to jog your memory and I will try to remember that in any future instances
      I really appreciate your apology! I am also sorry for trying to discredit you, I know you are also not "one of those" people and you also make great contributions to this community and it would be a shame if we were to lose your knowledge here as the quality content has been dwindling alot lately. We need to stick together and make sure that we keep helping and posting quality content so that everyone will have the correct information for their darts! I have also tried joining the Facebook community to get info (which is a HUGE mistake) but you deal with the quintessential three people... 1. the trolling douche who thinks its fun to make fun of someone for asking a question they think is stupid or the person SHOULD know. 2. The honest guy, who tells you everything wrong with what you want to do and makes you feel bad about it... and 3. the person who suggests things but doesnt realize you have a different engine than what they have.

      This Forum has trumped the facebook community over and over again with correct and quality content, i would much rather look here for info than deal with the people in the facebook community! So I agree, lets keep working together to make this community better and get everyone the best and correct information possible!

      ig2mdThwifsDart likes this.
      FOR P0299 CODE: REPLACE YOUR BOOST SOLENOID EITHER VIA THE DEALER OR OEM REPLACEMENT...

      1 of 81 BUILT IDENTICAL

      Mods:
      - MPx Intercooler Pipes
      - Custom Built 3" SRI w/ K&N cone filter
      - Stock Wastegate Adjustment (8mm)
      - RRM Lightweight Pulley
      - DRP Race Dump
      - AEM Boost Gauge
      - CravenSpeed TB Spacer
      - ECS Tuning Catch Can on the line from the PCV to the intake manifold
      - 17"x 7" Konig Control Matte Black Rims
      - BF-Goodrich G-Force Sport COMP-2 tires
      - Black Bezel Headlight Swap
      - RRM Ultimate Stage 3 Tune
      - Drilled & Slotted Brake Rotors
      - Cravenspeed Short Throw Shifter
      - XenonSupply 6000K HID headlights
      - Progress Rear Sway Bar
      - Energy Bushings
      - Moog Front & Rear End Links
      - Deyeme Flex Rear Engine Mount
      - Deyeme CDV Delete
      - HPSI Silicone Vacuum Hose Kit
      - Red Plasti-Dipped Crosshair, Fog light accents & "Mouth" grille
      - AGS Assembly Removal
      - Bosch Alfa Romeo 4C CoilPacks
      - 27" x 7" x 2.5" Upgraded FMIC
      - RRM Hi-Flow Cat Downpipe
      - PTP Turbo Blanket
      - Heat Wrapped Cold Intercooler Pipe
      - Weathertech In-channel Air/rain Deflectors
      - Squadra Sportiva Carbon Nero S shift knob
      - Moog Front Wheel Bearings
      - Oracle Red Halos
      - Forge Atmospheric BOV
      SOON TO COME: MTD Cam, Exhaust Manifold, Turbo & Tune

    8. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by dad's dart View Post
      Yesh .... let's remember what next year is: 2020.
      And you all know, Hindsight IS 2020 .
      Think about that for a second. I feel a bumper sticker coming.
      So you know what's going to happen? Are you really claiming to have perfect 20/20 vision? BA-DUM-tssss. I'll see myself out now...

    9. #28
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      So back to the TB problem.

      you tried 3 Modern Performance TB's and every one did the same thing, gave you the same code correct?

      Every time you put your stock TB back on everything was fine? Drove it around long enough to determine no problems?

      The code basically says vacuum leak or electrical problem. You said it idled unusually high with the larger TB, which could say Vac leak or too much air getting past throttle plate at idle.

      Now I haven't dissected one of these TB's yet. Anyone know how hard it is to swap the electrical side of it? In pics it looks like you could just unclip it and then on to another TB?

      Is there any manual adjuster for throttle blade opening/closing, or it is 100% electrically controlled?

      Did Modern ever suggest boring Your TB?
      Last edited by ig2mdThwifsDart; 02-14-2019 at 11:59 AM.
      Exitus04 likes this.
      First mod ; Boost and AFR gauges
      -AGS Delete
      -Big FMIC
      -2 1/2" custom charge pipes
      -Custom (1 off) GTX2060 turbo
      -Custom 3" CAI

      My 40mpg summer DD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M

    10. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by ig2mdThwifsDart View Post
      So back to the TB problem.

      you tried 3 Modern Performance TB's and every one did the same thing, gave you the same code correct?

      Every time you put your stock TB back on everything was fine? Drove it around long enough to determine no problems?

      The code basically says vacuum leak or electrical problem. You said it idled unusually high with the larger TB, which could say Vac leak or too much air getting past throttle plate at idle.

      Now I haven't dissected one of these TB's yet. Anyone know how hard it is to swap the electrical side of it? In pics it looks like you could just unclip it and then on to another TB?

      Is there any manual adjuster for throttle blade opening/closing, or it is 100% electrically controlled?

      Did Modern ever suggest boring Your TB?
      Sorry for the wait, been busy lately have checked here! But yes, 3 brand new Modern bored TBs all throwing the same code and causing the TPS light on the dash to start flashing.

      Once the stock TB was back in place and the re-learn procedure was done, the car ran normal again. I'm pretty sure you are right about the electrical side of the TB, it seems to just be clipped together by these metal fasteners that can literally be just pulled off. from everything I saw on the stock TB vs the MPx Bored TB the ONLY differences was that the opening, butterfly plate and screws holding the flapper together were different... EXCEPT, on the stock TB there is a plug that is flat with nothing sticking out and on the MPx bored TB it has been removed and an allan key bolt is sticking out... (please excuse the picture... the TBs in it are 2.0/2.4 ones but the same thing is changed on the 1.4T ones)

      LIKE SO: Name:  tbs.png
Views: 69
Size:  555.2 KB

      I am thinking that bolt is attached to the new flapper and might be able to adjust the blade's open/close amount. But, I have not opened the electrical side to look inside to see if there is any type of manual adjuster inside... I'm guessing not, as you are supposed to use the AlfaOBD and do the throttle position re-learn EVERY time you swap or take off the TB and put it back on. You can audibly hear the flapper open and close when doing the re-learn which to me says it may be all electrically controlled and makes it's adjustments through that process and while the car is running. Like I said, when I first installed the bored TB, the car ran fine (outside of the higher than normal idle) and gave a decent bit more power on the low-mid range of the RPMs... But, once the car came to operating temp the CEL would kick on and the TPS light would start flashing.

      In the manual, it says that if the TPS light starts flashing that it is like a flashing CEL, where you are supposed to IMMEDIATELY turn off the car and take it to the dealer or risk catastrophic failure... obviously, that didnt happen to me but I was still a tiny bit worried.
      Last edited by Exitus04; 02-20-2019 at 01:10 PM.
      ig2mdThwifsDart likes this.
      FOR P0299 CODE: REPLACE YOUR BOOST SOLENOID EITHER VIA THE DEALER OR OEM REPLACEMENT...

      1 of 81 BUILT IDENTICAL

      Mods:
      - MPx Intercooler Pipes
      - Custom Built 3" SRI w/ K&N cone filter
      - Stock Wastegate Adjustment (8mm)
      - RRM Lightweight Pulley
      - DRP Race Dump
      - AEM Boost Gauge
      - CravenSpeed TB Spacer
      - ECS Tuning Catch Can on the line from the PCV to the intake manifold
      - 17"x 7" Konig Control Matte Black Rims
      - BF-Goodrich G-Force Sport COMP-2 tires
      - Black Bezel Headlight Swap
      - RRM Ultimate Stage 3 Tune
      - Drilled & Slotted Brake Rotors
      - Cravenspeed Short Throw Shifter
      - XenonSupply 6000K HID headlights
      - Progress Rear Sway Bar
      - Energy Bushings
      - Moog Front & Rear End Links
      - Deyeme Flex Rear Engine Mount
      - Deyeme CDV Delete
      - HPSI Silicone Vacuum Hose Kit
      - Red Plasti-Dipped Crosshair, Fog light accents & "Mouth" grille
      - AGS Assembly Removal
      - Bosch Alfa Romeo 4C CoilPacks
      - 27" x 7" x 2.5" Upgraded FMIC
      - RRM Hi-Flow Cat Downpipe
      - PTP Turbo Blanket
      - Heat Wrapped Cold Intercooler Pipe
      - Weathertech In-channel Air/rain Deflectors
      - Squadra Sportiva Carbon Nero S shift knob
      - Moog Front Wheel Bearings
      - Oracle Red Halos
      - Forge Atmospheric BOV
      SOON TO COME: MTD Cam, Exhaust Manifold, Turbo & Tune

    11. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Exitus04 View Post
      Sorry for the wait, been busy lately have checked here! But yes, 3 brand new Modern bored TBs all throwing the same code and causing the TPS light on the dash to start flashing.

      Once the stock TB was back in place and the re-learn procedure was done, the car ran normal again. I'm pretty sure you are right about the electrical side of the TB, it seems to just be clipped together by these metal fasteners that can literally be just pulled off. from everything I saw on the stock TB vs the MPx Bored TB the ONLY differences was that the opening, butterfly plate and screws holding the flapper together were different... EXCEPT, on the stock TB there is a plug that is flat with nothing sticking out and on the MPx bored TB it has been removed and an allan key bolt is sticking out... (please excuse the picture... the TBs in it are 2.0/2.4 ones but the same thing is changed on the 1.4T ones)

      LIKE SO: Name:  tbs.png
Views: 69
Size:  555.2 KB

      I am thinking that bolt is attached to the new flapper and might be able to adjust the blade's open/close amount. But, I have not opened the electrical side to look inside to see if there is any type of manual adjuster inside... I'm guessing not, as you are supposed to use the AlfaOBD and do the throttle position re-learn EVERY time you swap or take off the TB and put it back on. You can audibly hear the flapper open and close when doing the re-learn which to me says it may be all electrically controlled and makes it's adjustments through that process and while the car is running. Like I said, when I first installed the bored TB, the car ran fine (outside of the higher than normal idle) and gave a decent bit more power on the low-mid range of the RPMs... But, once the car came to operating temp the CEL would kick on and the TPS light would start flashing.

      In the manual, it says that if the TPS light starts flashing that it is like a flashing CEL, where you are supposed to IMMEDIATELY turn off the car and take it to the dealer or risk catastrophic failure... obviously, that didnt happen to me but I was still a tiny bit worried.
      I'm guessing that the plug they removed was for access to slide out the pivot rod that holds the butterfly/ throttle plate in place. I think you would have to remove the electronic side to see whether there is a manual (rough) adjuster for the throttle plate.

      The noise you heard on the relearn was most likely the AIS cycling in and out rather than the throttle blade opening and closing, but I could be wrong about that, as I've never dealt with a DBW fully electronic TB before.

      My experience when swapping the old TD's from 46mm to 52 or 58mm is that sometime it all works within the parameters of the tune and no issues, Or you have to close the throttle plate a little to bring down the idle because AIS can't compensate for how far open the throttle plate is, coming from a larger V-6 mtr.

      Did Modern ask you Your specific TB, to send in for modifying? Maybe something slightly different in the mechanism that changed on the newer ones and need an ECU update to control properly.?

      The catastrophic failure msg is kind of funny. ECU must think it's diesel and be in Fear of complete runaway idle!!!!!
      Exitus04 likes this.
      First mod ; Boost and AFR gauges
      -AGS Delete
      -Big FMIC
      -2 1/2" custom charge pipes
      -Custom (1 off) GTX2060 turbo
      -Custom 3" CAI

      My 40mpg summer DD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wambNdfnu5M

     

     
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