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Dodge being too ambitious with the Dart SRT-4???

35K views 167 replies 34 participants last post by  b3ar2264 
#1 ·
Lots of questions regarding the future of the Dart SRT4....Will it be AWD? How much power does Dodge want to achieve? What engine will it have??? IMO, they should lighten it a bit....Keep it FWD or RWD (w/LSD) and tune it for around 270hp (develop optional "staged kits" for those who want more power/performance)...6spd manual only (keeping production costs low). I'm thinking of the Genesis Coupe and Mazdaspeed 3 for comparisons. Both those cars make around the same power and cost about the same price. I just think a 300hp+ AWD Dart will be too expensive. You're literally playing in EVO/STI/370z territory in terms of price and the Dart doesn't have the history/following to justify competing in that market. The Neon SRT4 was a helluva car for the money....It could run with cars costing much more....I think the new SRT4 has to be in the $25k range for price (starting anyway)....Again comparing to the MS3 and Gen Coupe.
 
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#2 ·
The genesis base is like 27k and has nothing equipped at that price. I think that should be the starting point. Gives a 6k leap over the standard dart. Enough to make up cost.
 
#5 ·
Very true. If Dodge can deliver an awd srt4 for mid 20's, more power to them. Does anyone think theyd do rwd instead? It would prob be cheaper than awd while still offering a balance between speed and handling.
 
#6 ·
A few years ago I would have said there is no chance it's RWD. With the genesis and FR-S/BRZ being popular 4 cylinder RWD cars, I would now say that most likely the Dart SRT won't be RWD. RWD and 4 cylinder is doable, I just don't think there is much of a chance in an econo car like the Dart. For as much hate as FWD gets, it can still make for an extremely fun car. Just look at the Focus ST, both SRT-4s, etc. It's cheap and durable.
 
#7 ·
Fwd will likely limit stock hp. Theyll have to go with a new driveline configuration if they hope to up the ante from previous models in terms of power. Id want weight savings and minimal toys in the car. Dont need remote start, backup cam, etc. It will be interesting to see what dodge decides to do with the new srt4
 
#10 ·
Well... Thats another issue. Darts are so well equipped already. The sticker on a ddct rallye can be like 22k+.... Limited being even more. The original srt4 started at 20k. Granted, it wasnt nearly as equipped as darts are. But check this out for comparison. A top trimmed na veloster with manual trans is about $22.4k. A base turbo veloster (which comes pretty well equipped btw) is just $500 more. A base turbo v lacks panoramic roof, nav and backup camera compared to a maxxed out na model. What this tells me is that it's possible for a srt4 to be "reasonably priced" again depending on alot of factors. Do we even know how GT's will be equipped? Is it just a Limited with a bigger engine and wheels?....Key factors with the SRT will be drivetrain and how they fit it into the existing Dart lineup. Using my Veloster comparison earlier, Hyundai didnt build ontop of a maxxed out N/A model. They took a step back allowing for a lower cost entry level turbo model. But, you can add all the toys for an extra $2500. An awd srt4 with no options would likely put you at the top of existing Dart price range atleast. Adding bells and whistles will obviously make the price go up from there. A rwd or fwd srt can be "in the ballpark" of existing trims again depending on options. See Mazda MS3 and Genesis Coupe as examples based on their starting price.
 
#13 ·
Two thoughts:

From what I've read they have all but nixed an SRT Dart. It's not been flat killed off, but its not Ralph's number 1 objective either. That doesn't seem very ambitious at all.

If nobody ever went out and did something badass because they didn't have a following or a history then nothing badass would ever get done. Push the Dart in the Rally Cross and WRC and whatever else you can to give it some exposure (not just one car, in one race series). Then drop it like its hot. I for one would do everything within my power to purchase an AWD Dart with 300 some odd ponies and handling competitive with the aforementioned vehicles. Talking mid 30k right? If it has the performance, people will buy it. Younger people (in general) are not so brand loyal as the older generations (in general).
 
#18 ·
Honestly I think there will be a Dart SRT4 but not any time soon . I think that Dodge will work on recovering from the market loss in this segment from the Caliper then in 2-3+ years they'll release a new gen of Darts, then announce an SRT model, then however long it takes to develop build and ship. It will be interesting at any rate if any SRT model is made based on the repositioning of the SRT brand as a whole.
 
#20 ·
I don't see a Dart ever being made with RWD. It would have to be designed that way from the beginning, and with money being so tight right now that's not going to happen. This car was made to get the corporate mpg's up. Even the mid-size Avenger/200 is FWD. Maybe with the second gen. Dart we might see an SRT model but I doubt it will happen with the first gen. Sales have been so slow they'll probably only do slight design changes for the next gen. car.
 
#26 · (Edited)
They renamed the R/T to GT and stated they were still examining the case for a potential Dart R/T. Then they said that they were working on the Dart SRT and were trying to make a business case for it as well as wait for a powertrain that met their goals. So it is being worked on in some capacity but it's not 100% green lit. If Dodge is going to compete in the hot hatch market even a little bit, it will be against the Speed 3 and Focus ST in the $25k range and you will see them bring out the Dart R/T. This way if they can't go all out like they want to with the Dart SRT, they can call whatever that project turns into the Dart R/T and still be a player in the hot hatch market. Best case scenario, if it all works out then you have the R/T going up against the Speed 3 and ST and then the Dart SRT fighting against the Evo, STI, and damn near confirmed Focus RS. Also adjusting for inflation a Neon SRT4 would cost $24,800, so the days of $20k pocket rockets is over unless you want manual everything, cloth interior, and a single cd player; non of that fancy leather or iPod hookups or GPS. Especially since SRT has moved away from bargain performance.
 
#27 ·
Id be ok with a stripped down srt. Saves weight. As long as i have ac, abs and power steering, im good. The ms3 starts just over 24k. Id like for a srt4 to be in that range, but lesser trims are already in that range.
 
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#28 ·
You're forgetting that these cars you mention are foreign cars and cost more because there imported they make up for production costs by making the evo go together the same general way the regular lancer goes together automatic manual or Cvt buying an evo in Japan coats around the same as a dart here the cost goes up only because there imported. Every other vehicle in dodges/chrysler line up has available awd aside the challenger and the viper. Awd isn't too much to hope for its better grip better control in the rain and winter months let's be real here its 2014 awd turbo isn't hard to come by and the only reason the caliber had more hp the. The neon was because it was heavier the dart will have between 220 and 250 hp
 
#31 ·
Awd isn't going to make the car that much more expensive as a matter of fact it shouldn't really effect the price at all. Awd has better launching power than fwd and rwd not to mention controllability it might be a tad slower but you won't be thinking it's slow when it's half way down the track before you get out of second gear.
 
#34 ·
I had a debate with a friend on facebook about this yesterday. He thinks the Dart SRT will be $30k. I dont think itll be nearly that much. A WRX starts at just over $26k. A Dart Limited is $23k, so it is possible to have a SRT as low as 26. If Dodge wishes to move these, they will have to undercut the competition (just as they did with the original srt4). Its a safe bet that the next gen Madza speed 3 will be out soon also, and you know theyll be upping the ante with that. I dont see Ford doing much with the Focus ST bc they may not want internal competition between it and the Mustang, but you never know....Based on current trims/configurations, i hope Dodge has 2 SRT trims (base and optioned out).... Maybe even a ACR trim that just has bare essentials. I could do without alot of tech that my wife's '13 Rallye has. Dont need nav, satellite radio, backup cam, customizable gauge cluster (altho, if it is has optional advanced readouts like the mustang, that would be cool), remote start (i drive manual anyway), proximity key (cool but not necessary)...dont need a cd player (who still listens to cds? Lol), voice command, I would appreciate bluetooth for calls and streaming audio tho.
 
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#92 ·
First off you must remember you cannot compare the price of the limited and the SRT, the SRT will NOT have many of the options the Limited has. The SRT will most likely be pretty bare bones in comparison, most of the options that dont have a performance value is usually taken out to save weight. Also you cannot compare pricing to the WRX, Subaru has been building AWD cars for years and it uses that AWD on every single one of its cars making it much cheaper to build than anything Dodge will come out with. Can I see the SRT Dart starting out at around 25k, possibly is it likely with AWD and 300+HP highly doubt it.

It's not about ambition. The capacity is there. What this is, is practicality. You cannot have a daily-driver that has 300 or more HP, and be fwd. The torque steer would be too much. Awd can handle that far easier.

The reason I say 300+ is because the caliber was detuned from 300 for torque steer, and srt has a knack for always being more powerful than the last variant; which is the caliber in this case.

As far as price, it might well be high-20s into mid-30s. Why? Inflation, and awd isn't cheap. Plus all the goodies that come standard with an SRT, like the track day, etc.

The Caliber had more than 300HP it was severely underrated...My CSRT bone stock dyno'd at 275HP at the wheels. 300 hp at 12% drive train loss would be 264HP at the wheels for anyones consideration. Now the torque steer isnt bad on a stock car, on top of that you forget cars like the Focus RS which has 300+HP and has no torque steer because of the Revoknuckle system its possible to eliminate most torque steer from a FWD car its just expensive.
 
#36 · (Edited)
It's not about ambition. The capacity is there. What this is, is practicality. You cannot have a daily-driver that has 300 or more HP, and be fwd. The torque steer would be too much. Awd can handle that far easier.

The reason I say 300+ is because the caliber was detuned from 300 for torque steer, and srt has a knack for always being more powerful than the last variant; which is the caliber in this case.

As far as price, it might well be high-20s into mid-30s. Why? Inflation, and awd isn't cheap. Plus all the goodies that come standard with an SRT, like the track day, etc.
 
#41 · (Edited)
I agree with you that AWD has a lot of power loss but completely disagree that stock WRX's are only fast off the line. I will start by saying that Subaru's symmetrical awd is far superior to any other awd drive system I have experienced. My 2015 WRX has 268 bhp and only about 230-240 make it to the wheels from early dyno tests, which isn't bad at all. And 0-100 in about 14 secs is pretty impressive for a $27k car and is hardly slow by any stretch of the imagination. It's only about 1/2 to 1 second slower than a 5.0 Mustang GT in the 1/4 mile. But you don't buy a WRX to go fast in a straight line, you feel it's true speed when you start turning the wheel. 30 - 40 mph turns in my M'13 are closer to 50-60 in the WRX. It is unbelievably good in the corners. If anything I think the WRX proves you can make a fantanstic AWD 4cyc turbo for a great price. I hope that Dodge tries to follow the mold set by cars like the WRX / STi / Evo. I truly hope that they don't model SRT4 to be an AWD drag car. I feel they may need to try to compete more with the STi than the WRX because I don't think they can afford to price it where the WRX is currently at just under $27k with where there current Dart prices are. Besides they can fill the gap that the Evo will leave when it is disco'd. Just my 2 cents.
 
#40 ·
True.

However, I wonder if they will have a fully-disconnecting rear driveshaft arrangement like the 200 & Cherokee?
 
#44 ·
My Dart stock SXT 1.4T would embarrass your M13 (according to the M13 owners), but we are talking about sports cars here. I have worn 28 tires off my modded VW 1.8T in 178,XXX miles, so it is a good comparison to the 2014 WRX. Just so happens the new WRX is slightly slower from a roll than my VW because of the major drivetrain loss. A Dart 1.4T with the Tork 1.5 tune will destroy a stock WRX from a few years ago, and I think from a roll it would be a drivers race between a Tork 1.5 Dart and a stock 2014 WRX. Obviously it is cheating to compare a stock car with a modded one, but seeing the loser pounding on his steering wheel still feels just as good. hahaha

Modded WRX's are a different matter, but if I had a dollar for every WRX owner who has told me that WRX's have "glass transmissions"................I would have been able to pay cash for my very own WRX. :p
 
#45 · (Edited)
LOL I agree with you on everything stated above. I will point out though that I am comparing my M'13, which is terribly slow(even by dart standards), to my 2015 WRX, not the 2014 WRX. The new WRX has a completely different powertrain including a new 2.0T motor and a brand new 6-speed transmission, not to mention all the chasis and suspension work. The "glass" 5 mt has been disco'd from the WRX. Also I have a feeling that many of the people who told you how terrible their "glass" 5 mt was had modded their WRX. I am talking completely stock.

And again I am not arguing that the Dart is a bad car. My Dart did exactly what I wanted it to do, it was an inexpensive way to get good MPGs and still be fun to drive. I just found a car that still gets me close to the same MPGs (28 combined M'13 vs 27 combined 15 WRX) and is way more fun to drive. I'm just saying that I hope the DSRT4 really steps it up, the 2015 WRX is a good benchmark to shoot for/past.
 
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